Will this work? Flipping the headstock

[supermansrf]

So first off I'm a noobie so I apologize if this is totally out in left field. I have Shopsmith fever. I recently bought a late 70's model Mark V. Its rough but I'm slowly getting it cleaned up.

Fast forward a few weeks and I found an absolute gem on Ebay. Made a friend in the process (1500 mile trip each way to get it). It is a 1988 Mark V 510. It came with the router table and from what I can tell it requires a separate router to attach to the table.

No offense to anyone but I don't like this setup. I really would like to use the SS headstock. Looking at how the router setup works, it appears that in order to use the router arbor, you are routing from above the work piece and not below which is what I've been used to my whole life. So here is my moment of creativity and I'm curious to get the expert's feedback...

So I have 2 working machines. The newer 510 I plan on leaving setup as it should be. However I was thinking about taking the headstock off the older one, and rotating it 180°. Also putting the carriage on the left side of the headstock and not the right. This would allow the rotation of the router to be correct but be below the table and not above the table?

Am I crazy in thinking this would work and allow me to route from below and not above? My plan for the older one is for the router on one side, and use the jig saw on it also (would need to be flipped as well and accessed from the opposite side.

Thoughts or am I nuts? I wanted input before I ran into this full force and realize I missed something.

[JPG]

Nuts, no!

A 'hidden' detail you may not have considered though.

Reversing the headstock will work.

Relocating the carriage will work.

When the table is inserted into the relocated carriage and tilted 90, the top will correctly face away from the headstock.

I think the quill will clear the trunion.

However when you 'flip' the headstock, the controls(lock, speed dial, power switch) move to the back side.

The carriage controls are still on the front side.

Since the lock and height crank bores go all the way through, I believe they can be reversed so as to place the 'handles' on the back side.

Now the kicker!

The quill shaft will be rotating counter-clockwise as viewed from the reoriented top of the table. That means the cutters need be 'upside down'. Only a reversible motor will permit mounting the cutters right side up.

I have considered doing this, but I have a reversible motor in the headstock.

[supermansrf]

And reversing the motor... I just read another post that you put up. it was a response to a PM I believe.

If I have a GE motor I can reverse it? Is there an easy way to figure out what motor I have in it without taking it apart? I just put it all back together after cleaning out 20# of dust. Don't mind doing it again to find out if needed.

Thanks for the quick reply.

[BuckeyeDennis]

Nuts, no!

A 'hidden' detail you may not have considered though.

Reversing the headstock will work.

Relocating the carriage will work.

When the table is inserted into the relocated carriage and tilted 90, the top will correctly face away from the headstock.

I think the quill will clear the trunion.

However when you 'flip' the headstock, the controls(lock, speed dial, power switch) move to the back side.

The carriage controls are still on the front side.

Since the lock and height crank bores go all the way through, I believe they can be reversed so as to place the 'handles' on the back side.

Now the kicker!

The quill shaft will be rotating counter-clockwise as viewed from the reoriented top of the table. That means the cutters need be 'upside down'. Only a reversible motor will permit mounting the cutters right side up.

I have considered doing this, but I have a reversible motor in the headstock.

Regarding "the kicker" ... are you sure about that?

A standard headstock provides right-hand rotation. A standard router bit is designed for right-hand rotation.

image.jpg (28.56 KiB) Viewed 1660 times

You can orient the headstock any way you want, and you will still get right-hand rotation. However, if you change the headstock orientation, you may well change your perception of the rotation from clockwise to counterwise, or vice versa, depending on your physical viewpoint. This doesn't require reversing the cutter. But it can require changing the workpiece feed direction (relative to the machine frame).

[JPG]

Nuts, no!

A 'hidden' detail you may not have considered though.

Reversing the headstock will work.

Relocating the carriage will work.

When the table is inserted into the relocated carriage and tilted 90, the top will correctly face away from the headstock.

I think the quill will clear the trunion.

However when you 'flip' the headstock, the controls(lock, speed dial, power switch) move to the back side.

The carriage controls are still on the front side.

Since the lock and height crank bores go all the way through, I believe they can be reversed so as to place the 'handles' on the back side.

Now the kicker!

The quill shaft will be rotating counter-clockwise as viewed from the reoriented top of the table. That means the cutters need be 'upside down'. Only a reversible motor will permit mounting the cutters right side up.

I have considered doing this, but I have a reversible motor in the headstock.

Regarding "the kicker" ... are you sure about that? YEP!

A standard headstock provides right-hand rotation. A standard router bit is designed for right-hand rotation.

image.jpg

You can orient the headstock any way you want, and you will still get right-hand rotation. However, if you change the headstock orientation, you may well change your perception of the rotation from clockwise to counterwise, or vice versa, depending on your physical viewpoint. This doesn't require reversing the cutter. But it can require changing the workpiece feed direction (relative to the machine frame).

All true!!!

Being so, requires the cutter to be mounted in the same orientation to the shaft.

Since this modification relocates the headstock from above the table to below, that means the cutter also flips upside down relative to the table top.

One of the things 'scary' about a headstock up operation is the cutter above the workpiece cutting on the top edge. Flipping the headstock moves that to the bottom edge and one feels safer. This top cutting 'mode' has other undesirable traits and is not recommended(digging in etc.) aside from the safety issue.

For those operations done on the bottom edge in headstock up setup requires reversal to cut on the bottom edge in headstock down orientation.

Sorry I did not include sufficient details above.

Other things to consider are fence location and feed direction(climb/plow cutting).

[dusty]

Nuts, no!

A 'hidden' detail you may not have considered though.

Reversing the headstock will work.

Relocating the carriage will work.

When the table is inserted into the relocated carriage and tilted 90, the top will correctly face away from the headstock.

I think the quill will clear the trunion.

However when you 'flip' the headstock, the controls(lock, speed dial, power switch) move to the back side.

The carriage controls are still on the front side.

Since the lock and height crank bores go all the way through, I believe they can be reversed so as to place the 'handles' on the back side.

Now the kicker!

The quill shaft will be rotating counter-clockwise as viewed from the reoriented top of the table. That means the cutters need be 'upside down'. Only a reversible motor will permit mounting the cutters right side up.

I have considered doing this, but I have a reversible motor in the headstock.

Regarding "the kicker" ... are you sure about that? YEP!

A standard headstock provides right-hand rotation. A standard router bit is designed for right-hand rotation.

image.jpg

You can orient the headstock any way you want, and you will still get right-hand rotation. However, if you change the headstock orientation, you may well change your perception of the rotation from clockwise to counterwise, or vice versa, depending on your physical viewpoint. This doesn't require reversing the cutter. But it can require changing the workpiece feed direction (relative to the machine frame).

All true!!!

Being so, requires the cutter to be mounted in the same orientation to the shaft.

Since this modification relocates the headstock from above the table to below, that means the cutter also flips upside down relative to the table top.

One of the things 'scary' about a headstock up operation is the cutter above the workpiece cutting on the top edge. Flipping the headstock moves that to the bottom edge and one feels safer. This top cutting 'mode' has other undesirable traits and is not recommended(digging in etc.) aside from the safety issue.

For those operations done on the bottom edge in headstock up setup requires reversal to cut on the bottom edge in headstock down orientation.

Sorry I did not include sufficient details above.

Other things to consider are fence location and feed direction(climb/plow cutting).

That's OKAY, we were impressed anyhow!:D

[JPG]

Being 'impressive' was not the goal!

Sharing previous thoughts was!

[BuckeyeDennis]

All true!!!

Being so, requires the cutter to be mounted in the same orientation to the shaft.

Since this modification relocates the headstock from above the table to below, that means the cutter also flips upside down relative to the table top.

One of the things 'scary' about a headstock up operation is the cutter above the workpiece cutting on the top edge. Flipping the headstock moves that to the bottom edge and one feels safer. This top cutting 'mode' has other undesirable traits and is not recommended(digging in etc.) aside from the safety issue.

For those operations done on the bottom edge in headstock up setup requires reversal to cut on the bottom edge in headstock down orientation.

Sorry I did not include sufficient details above.

Other things to consider are fence location and feed direction(climb/plow cutting).

Ah, so! I was thinking router bits (with fixed heads), and you were talking about shaper cutters, which can be mounted either direction on the shaper arbor. You had educated me on that distinction a while back. But the O.P. was talking about using a router arbor, so it didn't click.

[JPG]

There are 'router bits' that have 'shaped' cutting edges.

[BuckeyeDennis]

There are 'router bits' that have 'shaped' cutting edges.

Of course. But assuming that we are talking standard right-hand router bits here, they must be used with a right-hand spindle drive. Reversing the Shopsmith motor would give you left-hand spindle drive, and the bit would just burn the workpiece, instead of cutting it.