Shopsmith = SPAM!

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:51 pm

Jeff,

I own enough of the Shopsmith products that I really do not need to see every special, blow out or LAST MINUTE WARNING. However I don't ever want to miss a chance for one of those items or parts that I want to inventory at the right price. I have taken a different path than some in creating rules for handling emails from various sources. Shopsmith for example goes into the Shopsmith email inbox. This way I can read those I am intrested in at the point in time my schedules alllows such behavior. Oddly enough for me Shopsmith emails are always read first. Then the less important subjects. Jim:D

paul heller · Post by **paul heller** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:28 pm

Sounds like we all have different needs. It is hard to keep up with all the offers, even though I am happy to receive each and every one of them. Some of the offers have a very short window of opportunity, so by the time I get around to reading my overloaded mailbox I have missed the chance to take advantage of the sale.

Spam. What a mess.

Paul

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:41 pm

Speaking on behalf of Shopsmith ( but not for Shopsmith, as some think I do -- I am not an employee):

Jeff makes a good point, albeit badly. His first post sounded very much like he was whining about receiving too many emails, and the forum community politely reminded him that he could take himself off the mailing list. Then he blamed the ADMIN and all the rest of us for having misunderstood what he explained so poorly in his first post and made his point again, this time just a little clearer than mud. Where we are now, I believe, is that he has begun to make us understand that many of the ISPs, in order to keep complaints down and bandwidth open, attempt to catch spam before it gets to the recipient. If a company sends out too many sales-oriented emails too close together, this triggers the spam catcher and the company's emails can be completely blocked by that ISP. Also, Mr. Smith has claimed that Shopsmith makes good tools but their web marketing efforts are incompetent.

Two thoughts seem not to have occurred to Mr. Smith in his heroic effort to save Shopsmith from itself. First, that we might already be aware of this situation and second, that not everybody on our list receives the same number of e-mails. To spam or not to spam is a question Shopsmith wrestles with daily. One of the many things we do to avoid being labeled as a spammer is divide our marketing list up into many different categories based on demographics, buying behavior, and expressed interests. Only rarely do we e-mail the entire list; most e-mails go out just to segments. All of these segments overlap and consequently some people recieve more e-mails than others. Now and then, there are people such as Mr. Smith who recieve too many.

Mr. Smith's point is valid; Shopsmith has to be vigilant that they not annoy either their customer base or the ISPs. I will also concede that Shopsmith's web skills leave much room for improvement. Cultural shifts have forced Shopsmith to turn from direct marketing and direct-mail marketing to Internet marketing, and we are not yet proficient or comfortable in that environment. So Mr. Smith very nearly takes the ribbon for his incisive evaluation of our Internet challenges.

And then he completely blows his lead for his lack of good manners and civility.

With all good wishes,

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:48 pm

paul heller wrote:Sounds like we all have different needs. It is hard to keep up with all the offers, even though I am happy to receive each and every one of them. Some of the offers have a very short window of opportunity, so by the time I get around to reading my overloaded mailbox I have missed the chance to take advantage of the sale.

Spam. What a mess.

Paul

Paul you are right on target. I generally receive 300 plus email daily. I never look at some of them. I have two different spam filters. Between them the number looked at is closer to 200 daily. Those are distributed between 11 active inboxes. I have specific rules about when and in which order I review them. Shopsmith, other woodworking and business messages receive the most attention (not necessarily in that order). Close family, friends and church business next and other subjects last or never. It took me nearly two hours to figure out how to set up those rules in Outlook 2007. The time investment has rewarded me repeatedly. Jim

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:22 pm

I caught my wife throwing out some of my woodworking catalogs.

Sounds like grounds for divorce!

Just be sure the judge is a woodworker, not a homemaker.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:30 pm

fjimp wrote:Paul you are right on target. I generally receive 300 plus email daily. I never look at some of them. I have two different spam filters. Between them the number looked at is closer to 200 daily. Those are distributed between 11 active inboxes. I have specific rules about when and in which order I review them. Shopsmith, other woodworking and business messages receive the most attention (not necessarily in that order). Close family, friends and church business next and other subjects last or never. It took me nearly two hours to figure out how to set up those rules in Outlook 2007. The time investment has rewarded me repeatedly. Jim

It sounds like you have too many friends and family.

alancooke · Post by **alancooke** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:13 pm

jeffssmith wrote:

Get your act together, Shopsmith. Try to bring your web talents up to the standard of your other products. And, oh, btw....when a good customer sends you dollars and recommendations on how to improve your mailing list, how bout saying something other than "get off our mailing list!?!?!" If nothing else, shouldn't you be concerned that you are wasting effort by creating emails that are being silently deleted on some of your less internet savvy customers' accounts?

Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Maybe you should get in the shop with your new products and make some sawdust. It'll help you relax

I hope your day gets better!

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:15 pm

Hey Nick, I think that maybe you are the one who needs to make sawdust and chill.

jeffssmith · Post by **jeffssmith** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:19 pm

[quote="Nick"]Speaking on behalf of Shopsmith ...
Jeff makes a good point, albeit badly. ....
Two thoughts seem not to have occurred to Mr. Smith in his heroic effort to save Shopsmith from itself. ....One of the many things we do to avoid being labeled as a spammer is divide our marketing list up into many different categories based on demographics, buying behavior, and expressed interests. Only rarely do we e-mail the entire list]

Well, at least you tried to address the content of my posts, and I appreciate that.

Cutting someone down with a snarky "heroic effort to save Shopsmith" is your idea of 'civility' and 'all good wishes?' though?

The majority of posters on here who are discussing setting up spam filter rules (which only work locally) are proof positive that the enterprise-level of ISP spam trashing before it even gets to customers is not well understood. Obviously, Nick, you are on top of it, and you concede what I was afraid of: a rough-edged automated 'targeted spambot' is generating the 22 mails to me in 30 days....not a human marketing group with their hands on the tiller.

I learn and share lots of info on antique tractor and classic car websites, which tend to my metal- and grease-type hobbies....and the good-old-boy type of regular guy contributors are very similar in how their personality shows through a forum.....but I've never seen such a harsh or indifferent reaction from any forum HOSTING company to a new member with a constructive criticism of their admittedly 'needs-some-work' web presence.

I'll reluctantly take y'all's advice and unsubscribe from the mailing list and keep myself out of your way on the web. You might ought to consider learning some things about netiquette from car guys and tractor guys, though, maybe.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:49 pm

Written by Nick:
Speaking on behalf of Shopsmith ( but not for Shopsmith, as some think I do -- I am not an employee):

Hi Nick,

I thought you worked for Shopsmith. At least I think many of us here on the forum think you do. You wrote in your last post above that you are "Not a Shopsmith employee", and that you only speak on behalf of Shopsmith, not for Shopsmith. You had me fooled.

What exactly is your role in the company then? I'm sure others will like to know, myself included. I'm sure they pay you and you just don't volunteer your time there. If they pay you, then does that make you an employee? It does in my part of the country.

I'm looking forward to your answer.

Shopsmith Forums

Shopsmith = SPAM!

One Man's Opinion - Mine