How can we help Shopsmith?

[woodburner]

In a related post on demos, I posted an idea that perhaps it is time Shopsmith owners start local user groups. I believe that this is would build upon what you had initiated with the Owner's Weekend.

This idea has come up several times over the years, on this and other forums.

Having posted polls and asking what others thought, I and others have come to the conclusion that not enough owners are interested in the creation of local Shopsmith clubs.

Most of the problem lies in that not enough owners live close enough to one-another to make this work. Now, if your town has 10 or more owners who are willing to make a go of it, great. Let the rest of us know how it works out and maybe more clubs will start cropping up around the country.

[hb2]

New products drive business growth. Shopsmith has not developed its own new product in a long time. We see other companies products adapted to the Mark V and old products re marketed, but an honest to goodness new product has not been developed.

Having said that we all know that new markets can also generate growth. I can understand how a financially strapped company like Shopsmith would like to generate growth through marketing as it is less costly than product development by far. The question is whether or not the product is right to justify different marketing. I think it is.

I love my 520 for my own reasons but it is a personal preference and I can understand why others desire single purpose machines. I suggested earlier what Nick identified as tool porn as a possible way to show the valuable features of Shopsmith to new eyes. Not being in the publishing business I may of been naive in thinking such a book could be published. The sawdust sessions are great for us users who love working with the Mark V, but I think they are too clumsy to appeal to a new user. I respect Nick a great deal but the flow of the show is too slow. Yes, it is live, so there will be hiccups and Nick does much better than I could hope to do, but too may times he is searching for words and frankly that does not inspire someone to continue to watch.

Back to the porn idea - maybe instead of book it could be a web magazine that features users actual shops, why they like the Shopsmith as well as a feature project. Yes, there would be cost associated with this, but it would not require a publisher, it could show new users lots of people who have Shopsmith shops and it would show that quality work is done everyday on the Mark V.

This would require SS to invest but that is something they know they have to do anyway. I realize to a certain extent this is exactly why they are doing the sawdust sessions and I think those should continue. But, just as a book is almost always better than a movie a little tool porn, showing many different shops, users and projects will encourage new users to have that same gotta have one attitude that made many of us buy the tool. I would think maybe 6 issues a year would do it.

Really this is very much just an updated, web based Hands on but it should be done first class.

A user who hopes for great success for Shopsmith for many more years!

[Ed in Tampa]

Hi Ed,

I'm not saying one type is superior to the other. I'm just pointing out that in today's market, the sales are in the modern day, upgraded type of tools.

As for the "throw-away" types not buying tools that are not considered "throw-aways", have you seen what they sell at the big box stores (Lowes, etc.). Just take a look at the tablesaws they offer. These tools are considered "throw-away" tools by actual craftsman and they do not buy them.

But for the average person, they use them and then dump them when something else catches their fancy. Lowes and others would not have the sales they do with these tools if they are built well enough to be passed down from family member to family member, and last fifty or more years.

They are designed and built to last only a cerain amount of working hours, and then they die.

Unfortunately, most do not do their homework before they purchase these kinds of tools, and they end up at the local dump when the owner gets tired of having it take up space in the corner of the garage. I myself have seen them dumped at my local refuge site. These tools are sold as "quick-buy" tools with the hopes the purchaser does not look any further than the box it comes in.

And, as pointed out in another thread, it seems that Shopsmith is jumping on the bandwagon, but is heading in the wrong direction, by offering cheaper made replacement parts. It has been effecting the performance of the machines which in turn will hurt sales.

Quality doesn't fit into the equasion as much as it used to where sales of a product are concerned. It's more about the newest and the fastest. That's what creates sales in today's society. That is why Shopsmith lacks in sales.

I'm not saying they need to re-create the Mark V, but they do need to show what the Shopsmith is about, and why it can keep up with the competition. But the bottom line according to them is money, money, money. And a lack of it.

Maybe it's time for a Mark V upgrade. It's been quite a while since they actually did something to improve the Mark V itself. That is when they designed the 520 (18 yrs. ago?) The company was doing something about every 10-12 yrs. to improve the Mark V and keep pace with the tool market, but that ended with the 520. What happened?

Some of you have asked: Why an electronic varaible speed motor? Here's one answer. Being able to adjust the speed down to below 100 rpm's will be nice, especially with woodturning. I know, not all of you wood turn. But what about drilling large holes with Forstner bits. It can be great for that too. It sure would beat having to attach and remove that darn speed reducer all the time.

Why an electronic speed gauge? Because certain operations do require a specific speed. Why do you think the current speed dial has the lettering on it. I say, if you can improve on that and make some operations easier and safer, then go for it. That is why so many lathe manufacturers have put them on their lathes.

Well, I think I've said enough for now.

First the sales of saws at Lowes or Home Depot do not keep the doors open or the lights on. In fact a Sales associate at Lowes showed me the sales for the Delta contractor saw and it was less than one a every three months I think the sales of all table saws costing over $300 was about less than 1 a month.
I personally marked the box of the Ridgid table saw at Home Depot that I figured would be the easiest to give to a customer. The marked box was unmoved for 4 months.

Both of these stores are high volume stores in the better part of town.

Second the cheap throw it away saw is $100-$300 dollar saw not a $3000 investment. However I do know more than one Shopsmith has been bought and never used by the original owner. Definitely an impulse buyer.

Third only people at appreciate quality buy quality. Most of the sales are impulse sales where product knowledge and an investigation of quality never took place. Shopsmith occupies a every unique nitch in that it does appeal to both quality and to impulse buyers hence it's success in Mall demo's.

Your absolutely right Shopsmiths downward turn in quality did it much harm. I know I stopped buying anything Shopsmith for a number of years after I purchased my 510 upgrade that I still consider worst than junk. However I see the 520 upgrade and it looked reasonable so I ventured into the water again. If present quality ever hits 510 upgrade levels I would get back out of the water real quick.

That said look around and notice something that is taking place in the American society. The stores/products that offered quality and personal care have been closing with almost absolute certainity. It is almost impossible to find a "mens" store in which to buy a suit. Look at the jewerly cases and see how many "quality watches" have joined the ranks of run of the mill products.

People don't appreciate quality mainly because the things that made quality special was the ability to have it repaired. First there aren't that many that can repair things today. Those skills are being lost faster than I'm losing my hair. Also most manufactures have been forced to use assemblies that require outlandish prices if individual pieces are bought for repair.

I owned a Porter Cable Tiger Cub recip saw that I paid around $100 for I stripped the drive qear. Price $75. That means the metal carrying case, the metal case of the tool, the motor, the switch, the chuck, and all the rest of the parts cost $25? No it means the gear came in assembly and for Porter Cable to get them at per unit price that was the cost. In effect they made the machine a throw away.

My buddy works in a machine shop and he was going to cut me a gear to repair it. Guess what once we figured in his time, shop costs and all that would be the cost of the gear.

Last you don't have a problem with the Variable belt speed control you have a problem with it range. I think Shopsmith could design the existing speed control to give the range you want and maybe they should but I would probably not appreciate it as much as it would cost to do.

[woodburner]

To slow the mechanical variable speed offered now, and keep it completely mechanical, you would have to:

1. Change the size of the sheeves.

2. Put a motor with less rpm's in the headstock, which will also slow the higher-end rpm's.

The most cost effective way at the present time would be to put an electronic variable speed motor in the headstock.

In fact, you can do this and not have to change another thing. I have friends that have replaced a single rpm motor (similar to Shopsmith's) they had in a mechanical variable speed lathe w/sheeves with an electronic motor, and still use the sheeves in the lathe. They can adjust the speed with both the electronic control and the mechanical control, and slow it down to 0 rpm.

Now that would be something the company can offer as an upgrade. They can just offer the newer motor for a do-it-yourself changeover.

[dickg1]

Gentlemen and gentlewomen,

The thoughts re: upgrading the ShopSmith and others ideas expressed here are all well and good and within the stated theme of this thread. However, let's step back a bit and consider this (with indulgence, if you will).

When a person goes to buy a drill, that person doesn't need a drill, that person needs a HOLE.

When someone buys saw, they don't want a saw. They need to CUT something.

You don't buy a hammer to have a hammer. You need to drive a NAIL.

If someone wants to purchase a ShopSmith they want to do more than just drill a hole and cut a board. They are buying a machine that will most likely last them a lifetime or more and are motivated to build furniture, toys, etc. that will give them the pleasure in the building and/or presentation or establishment of a family treasure. Of course, this can be done with stand alones. One key to ShopSmith's continuance as a viable company appears to be attempts to reach those that are motivated to make something on a continuing basis either as a hobby or avocation and to do it a a limited space. This does not imply or necessitate that our machine needs sophisticated controls.

How ShopSmith accomplishes this may be beyond any assistance we may provide. We are not privy to their short, mid or long term goals and plans to achieve their objectives. I don't mean that suggestions shouldn't be expressed here, just that from my perspective it is a marketing issue and not a re-engineering/design one.

Thank you for listening.

Dick

[wlhayesmfs]

I am with Pat on the Bingo cards. (Did not know that was what they were called) but have not used them for years. I go straight to the internet to see right now what it is or what they have. I don't have much patients so guess that is why I don't like to wait for the mail.
I also got my 94 MarkV at a Mall demo and still like to see them work when they have them. I also try and talk to the people in the audience on why I like my SS and everything it will do with practice.
I am looking forward to see what Nick and SS do in the future. Still would like to know when next years gathering is so I can make plans to go,
Thanks

[efmaron]

I agree that this is a marketing issue. The newbie woodworker or the DIYer has to be exposed to Shopsmith. HOW? That is the question, I would think advertising in the woodworking and handyman magazines that the people you want to get to, go to for ideas and how to help. Or advertising on these magazines web sites. I have been a member of the Handyman Club of America for years, and on there forum every day. There are new people joining every day. New people that may be interested in a Shopsmith.

[Ed in Tampa]

I agree that this is a marketing issue. The newbie woodworker or the DIYer has to be exposed to Shopsmith. HOW? That is the question, I would think advertising in the woodworking and handyman magazines that the people you want to get to, go to for ideas and how to help. Or advertising on these magazines web sites. I have been a member of the Handyman Club of America for years, and on there forum every day. There are new people joining every day. New people that may be interested in a Shopsmith.

Efmaron
YOu have been a member of the Handyman club for years??? Wow I always thought that was a scam. At the risk of hijacking this thread would you tell us about it? Perhaps start a new thread.
Ed

[sandyj]

Here in New Zealand there are not a lot of shopsmiths here - two I think.
One area I frequent to find out about what is happening in woodworking is the Apple Music Store thru Itunes - and look at podcasts then search for "woodworking".
There are quite a few producers of this that show how to make things - even "juniors". Now if the inclination is to show the world the virtues of the shopsmith - why don't some get together and show what they do using the SS and get the interest out there - my interests are in smaller projects and general repairs that I can put together in my small workshop - that seems to be the niche for quite a few of the owners I see here.
What I think I am trying to get across is get the word out where the masses are. Using new technology to learn useful information and techniques - possiblly building things on the net.
Don't get me wrong - I appreciate 200% the Sawdust session archives - but to see a complete project from start to finish in the smaller sizes - the Train for instance on the wall in the workshop - would be very usefull for beginners.

Enough of my ramblings but I do enjoy using my ss and keeping it simple works for me - most of the time.

Kind regards to all
Sandy in New Zealand

[grayhane]

Perhaps the best thing would be for Shopsmith to help themselves.

This is one of the last Great American Companies, the machine is outstanding and for a vast majority of us, only obtainable via the used market.

They run fantastic sales all the time, but what if they just lay off all the sales and drop the price of the things they sell ? As SS is set up now , would they fold if 100% of all sales where as a result of specials they run ?

I would have loved a machine fresh from the factory, might have had one 20 years ago in fact but cost new is out of keeping with what I can do in stand alone units of similar quality.

Along another line is Television advertising. The ratio of money out to sales generated would probably outpace anything done in demos in malls. I'm not saying buy super bowl time but a spot on Normie's show might sure get a few phones ringing.

I started out with an old 500, half way through rehab, it was put aside because another machine came into view that was cheaper than the needed parts for the older machine. That cycle repeated again and now I have 3, one is mint, one needs a few extras and the first is still in a pile, to be reborn down the line. Sad fact is I still have less than half the cost of a new 510 in everything.

The saddest thing that can be said is that if the company folded tomorrow, the machines will probably be around for another 75 years. Like and old Indian motorcycle not just the loss of a machine, but the loss of a dream.