Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??

[dusty]

At the same time I ordered my Double Tilt Upgrade kit, I ordered two Carriage Stop Rings (aka, rubber baby bumpers). The one that I had has gotten sort of stiff and I decided to put in a new one. I, in fact, ordered and installed two stop rings rather than one.

It is my opinion that the "primary" purpose of this Carriage Stop Ring is to position and re-position the Carriage in the same position with respect to the headstock each time either is moved. At the same time, I contend that the saw blade should be positioned in the "center" of the table cutout; it has done that on my two machines in the past. With these two new stop rings, the blade is offset approximately 1/8" to the right of where it had been. This is within the table insert but what I consider a long way from "center".

I have approached Shopsmith Customer Service about this and am awaiting their response. I contend that that part 516667 is unintentionally wider than it was. Measurements of new and old confirm this. The question is whether Shopsmith believes this to be an issue or not.

[JPG]

No question in my mind!

Again the 'old' one(that aligns correctly) is 1 3/8"?

I think MS being sloppy on this.

You may need to freeze the new ones and shave them with the disk sander.

[dusty]

No question in my mind!

Again the 'old' one(that aligns correctly) is 1 3/8"?

I think MS being sloppy on this.

You may need to freeze the new ones and shave them with the disk sander.

That aligns correctly?? Yes, the stop ring that is 1 3/8".


1 3/8" places the blade very close to the "center" of the table insert. There is NO DOCUMENTATION that says having the blade align to other than the "center" is incorrect.

Side Comment: Others have reported that their ZCIs are no longer ZCI after a short period of use. I would be in that same boat except that I treat them a bit differently than I believe some do. It is not unusual for me to dismount the ZCI, slide the table/carriage into place and then remount the ZCI. If the table is in the right position, the ZCI slips right into the cutout. If it is off a little bit, relocating the table or headstock will correct that. This allows the ZCI to have a long and useful like.

I use a ZCI almost exclusively (dado and table tilt excluded) because I believe that the ZCI helps with dust collection.

[robinson46176]

I would think that it would be fairly easy to mount a piece of wood on a screw center and turn the end of it down well over-sized than the way tube then turn a shouldered cut on the very end where the rubber ring could be slipped on with a very tight fit and back against the shoulder and its length "adjusted" with a bit of sandpaper. If the shoulder was the exact dimension and the end turned flat the right ring size would be automatic.
I can see where the ZCI could have an measurable impact on dust collection. I recall from before when you were experimenting with closing up gaps around the lower guard to improve dust collection.
I have looked at, but not closely studied the lower guard / dust collector on my Ridgid TS-3650 table saw but it works very well even with just a common shop vac. It works far better than my SS 510 and better than any of the other table saws I own or ever owned. I should look at it more closely to see if I can figure out why...


.

[JPG]

No question in my mind!

Again the 'old' one(that aligns correctly) is 1 3/8"?

I think MS being sloppy on this.

You may need to freeze the new ones and shave them with the disk sander.

That aligns correctly?? Yes, the stop ring that is 1 7/8" places the blade very close to the "center" of the table insert. There is NO DOCUMENTATION that says having the blade align to other than the "center" is incorrect.

Side Comment: Others have reported that their ZCIs are no longer ZCI after a short period of use. I would be in that same boat except that I treat them a bit differently than I believe some do. It is not unusual for me to dismount the ZCI, slide the table/carriage into place and then remount the ZCI. If the table is in the right position, the ZCI slips right into the cutout. If it is off a little bit, relocating the table or headstock will correct that. This allows the ZCI to have a long and useful like.

I use a ZCI almost exclusively (dado and table tilt excluded) because I believe that the ZCI helps with dust collection.

"1 3/8?"

"Yes 1 7/8 works"!

I'se confused!

[dusty]

My error. I am the one confused. The stop ring 1 3/8" is the magic number.

[JPG]

My error. I am the one confused. The stop ring 1 3/8" is the magic number.

Thank You!

[dusty]

My error. I am the one confused. The stop ring 1 3/8" is the magic number.

Thank You!

However, I got an email response from Shopsmith today and it implies that the stop rings that I have are correct. This is an excerpt from their response:

"We only have 2 stop rings 500 model is 5/16" or the 510 1 7/16" thick,
with this one the saw blade will not be centered it will be slightly
to the left.

The stop ring that I have here at my computer measures 1.475" (1 15/32"). In my book that is not the same (1.439" = 1 7/16").

If 1 7/16" places the blade to the right of center, 1 15/32" goes just a little bit further (yes, that is only 1/32"). This is how we stack tolerances.

[JPG]

Interesting that the '500' is 1/16" less than 'historical' version and the 510 is 1/16" longer than some(at least two) older ones.

I wonder if 'slightly' is 1/16".

[dusty]

This may not bring about closure here on the forum but but it has help to terminate my effort to change anything not within my control.

I have a carriage stop ring that works for me and I am going to use it. In the meantime, I shall find a way to reduce the width of the two new stop rings that Shopsmith sent me.

The images that are posted here will tell my entire story. In doing this, I have learned a couple more things about the Mark V.

1. The left hand edge of the Main Table Support Legs are in the same vertical plane as the left side of a thin kerf saw blade.

Carriage Stop Ring 009.JPG (135.91 KiB) Viewed 8376 times

2. The Main Table pivot line is also the on the same vertical plane as the left side of the saw blade.

Carriage Stop Ring 008.JPG (152.1 KiB) Viewed 8376 times

The width of the Carriage Stop Ring is critical in establishing these relationships as it determines Carriage Location with respect to the Headstock (the blade). Of course, the length of the saw arbor plays into this analysis but one uses only those arbors specifically designed for the Mark V then there should be no issue. You may not be able to see it well in this image but notice the small nib on the side of the headstock that engages the stop ring.

Carriage Stop Ring 002.JPG (143.18 KiB) Viewed 8376 times

I have also done a sketch the details this arrangement.