reible wrote:Flat doesn't cut it necessarily when you do radial only measurements. You would need to do across hatch pattern as well. Even doing this will not show if a mounted disk is perpendicular to the main shaft. The perpendicular is the critical element to using a plate for an instrument of alignment.
Ed
Maybe true, but we are only concerned with the radial flatness because that is what we are using for the table set up. I am assuming that you will use the full diameter of the disk with its center directly at the top of the table for measurements.
No maybe!
Flat is necessary for perpendicularity.
Perpendicular to the quill shaft axis.
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
reible wrote:Flat doesn't cut it necessarily when you do radial only measurements. You would need to do across hatch pattern as well. Even doing this will not show if a mounted disk is perpendicular to the main shaft. The perpendicular is the critical element to using a plate for an instrument of alignment.
Ed
Maybe true, but we are only concerned with the radial flatness because that is what we are using for the table set up. I am assuming that you will use the full diameter of the disk with its center directly at the top of the table for measurements.
No maybe!
Flat is necessary for perpendicularity.
Perpendicular to the quill shaft axis.
I think I already stated that arbor run out was not measured and would effect the table setup but not the flatness of the disk.
Just like a saw blade you loose part of the blade below the table. I forget the numbers but maximum depth of cut is about 3-1/4" on a 10" blade. Like wise the sanding disk is going to be restricted to what 4-1/4" above the table so the area you are using will never ever be radial. Some one can get an actual measurement.
Now if you move to having the disk outside the table you can get to this but this is not what Dusty has been showing.
I personally invested in a Master Plate many years ago.
Now it is interesting that so many of you can measure to .001" with a feeler gauge. I have several sets and the lowest they go is .0015" What brands did you buy to get the .001"?
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
reible wrote:Just like a saw blade you loose part of the blade below the table. I forget the numbers but maximum depth of cut is about 3-1/4" on a 10" blade. Like wise the sanding disk is going to be restricted to what 4-1/4" above the table so the area you are using will never ever be radial. Some one can get an actual measurement.
Now if you move to having the disk outside the table you can get to this but this is not what Dusty has been showing.
I personally invested in a Master Plate many years ago.
Now it is interesting that so many of you can measure to .001" with a feeler gauge. I have several sets and the lowest they go is .0015" What brands did you buy to get the .001"?
Darn just missed the free shipping........ Oh well I'll add it to my list for next time. I must have 7 or 8 feeler gauges and none of them go to .001", it will be nice to add that capability in the future.
Is it clear to everyone why the radial measurements do not give you what you need for using a disk in this manor? Hope so but if not I plan to be in the shop again tomorrow and will mount a disk and take some pictures.
If I have time I'll mount up my master plate so those that are interested can have a visual on that as well.
Ed
sehast wrote:
reible wrote:Just like a saw blade you loose part of the blade below the table. I forget the numbers but maximum depth of cut is about 3-1/4" on a 10" blade. Like wise the sanding disk is going to be restricted to what 4-1/4" above the table so the area you are using will never ever be radial. Some one can get an actual measurement.
Now if you move to having the disk outside the table you can get to this but this is not what Dusty has been showing.
I personally invested in a Master Plate many years ago.
Now it is interesting that so many of you can measure to .001" with a feeler gauge. I have several sets and the lowest they go is .0015" What brands did you buy to get the .001"?
reible wrote:Just like a saw blade you loose part of the blade below the table. I forget the numbers but maximum depth of cut is about 3-1/4" on a 10" blade. Like wise the sanding disk is going to be restricted to what 4-1/4" above the table so the area you are using will never ever be radial. Some one can get an actual measurement.
Now if you move to having the disk outside the table you can get to this but this is not what Dusty has been showing.
I personally invested in a Master Plate many years ago.
Now it is interesting that so many of you can measure to .001" with a feeler gauge. I have several sets and the lowest they go is .0015" What brands did you buy to get the .001"?
sehast wrote:
Maybe true, but we are only concerned with the radial flatness because that is what we are using for the table set up. I am assuming that you will use the full diameter of the disk with its center directly at the top of the table for measurements.
No maybe!
Flat is necessary for perpendicularity.
Perpendicular to the quill shaft axis.
I think I already stated that arbor run out was not measured and would effect the table setup but not the flatness of the disk.
Ye be connecting the wrong dots.
Was the 'maybe' I was objecting to.
I was also attempting to clarify that perpendicular has nothing to do with 'vertical' and that it was relative to the quill shaft. I said nothing re the quill runout.
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
I have been grossly over thinking this Main Table Alignment Tool. In reality, two pieces of wood cut to the correct width is all that is required.
Once you have the two pieces of wood (get them to the correct dimension any way you know how), you are ready for a quick and dirty alignment.
Get the Mark into saw mode. Loosen all four trunnion bolts, remove the table insert and drop the table down as far as it will go without altering the horizontal position.
Insert one of the two freshly milled pieces on the left side of the blade where the table insert would be. Now insert the other on the right side of the blade. The table has now positioned itself so that the miter slots are parallel to the blade and the blade is in the center of the cutout.
Tighten the trunnion bolts and you are done.
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"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
dusty wrote:I have been grossly over thinking this Main Table Alignment Tool. In reality, two pieces of wood cut to the correct width is all that is required.
Once you have the two pieces of wood (get them to the correct dimension any way you know how), you are ready for a quick and dirty alignment.
Get the Mark into saw mode. Loosen all four trunnion bolts, remove the table insert and drop the table down as far as it will go without altering the horizontal position.
Insert one of the two freshly milled pieces on the left side of the blade where the table insert would be. Now insert the other on the right side of the blade. The table has now positioned itself so that the miter slots are parallel to the blade and the blade is in the center of the cutout.
Tighten the trunnion bolts and you are done.
That is indeed quick & slick! But first, I'd measure the sides of the table-insert slot, to verify they are precisely parallel to the miter slots.
dusty wrote:I have been grossly over thinking this Main Table Alignment Tool. In reality, two pieces of wood cut to the correct width is all that is required.
Once you have the two pieces of wood (get them to the correct dimension any way you know how), you are ready for a quick and dirty alignment.
Get the Mark into saw mode. Loosen all four trunnion bolts, remove the table insert and drop the table down as far as it will go without altering the horizontal position.
Insert one of the two freshly milled pieces on the left side of the blade where the table insert would be. Now insert the other on the right side of the blade. The table has now positioned itself so that the miter slots are parallel to the blade and the blade is in the center of the cutout.
Tighten the trunnion bolts and you are done.
That is indeed quick & slick! But first, I'd measure the sides of the table-insert slot, to verify they are precisely parallel to the miter slots.
"precisely parallel" - you do mean "precisely as in wood working" right.
The quickest way to do that is to rip a piece of scrap to the width of your table insert (I think all the Shopsmith inserts are 3") and see how it fits. They are not all precisely the same size. I have four tables and there is some deviation in width but my home made table inserts fit in all of them.
When I make table inserts, I cut them initially oversize and sand for a snug fit. I consider the table cutout to be 3 1/64" wide.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
