My Newest Toy

[BuckeyeDennis]

. . .

I think we can now all agree that your table-insert pocket is indeed parallel to the miter slot!

And I'm with you on what constitutes a reasonable tolerance. I've found that my 520 is capable of holding about 0.005", when I use best practices that I learned right here on this forum.

I presume you attained an EE degree without taking a 'Machine Shop Practices' course.

I believe in 'engineer' first, specialty second.

I consider taking that course a necessary stepping stone that I was fortunate enough to have taken(way back then).

Indeed. I never had shop class in high school either. I taught myself to build and fly model rockets and R/C airplanes as a youngster, and picked up some of the basics doing that stuff. Later, I was fortunate to work with a couple of mechanical engineers who had put themselves through engineering school working as tool & die makers, and picked up a lot of the finer points from them.

I've had zero formal training, or even hands-on instruction, in woodworking. So this forum and other internet resources have been invaluable to me.

[reible]

Getting a little warm again today to be working on my shelf unit so I took a few minutes to show my objection to using radial measurements when attempting to align to a disk in the saw slot.

I used some blue tape so you could see the black lines of where measurements might be taken. By definition radial measurements have to have the center of the disk as part of the line. So while I did not take any angle references I did strike the line through the center. Any number line segments could be added or taken away but they always have to include the center as a point.

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Now when we mount the disk on the shopsmith you can see the lines going off this way and that way.

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Now I'll add a piece of green tape and make the line where the disk and table insert meet.

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This line or a parallel line above/below it is the only location that I care about flatness(you define this line). Since this line is then the reference to which alignment is done or measurements can be taken. Any other points well they don't count and in fact don't even need to exist.

This line also needs to be perpendicular to the shaft of the shopsmith.

BTW this is where the line shows up with the disk removed.

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I never did measure it but it is what it is and doesn't really matter.

Ed

[dusty]

I do appreciate the time that you have spent doing this Ed but now I must go back to the books because I do not fully understand the importance of the radial lines with respect to the green line.

I am sure glad I never parted with the text books.

[charlese]

,,,,I do not fully understand the importance of the radial lines with respect to the green line.

Me too, Dusty! I think it might have been Abe Lincoln who said. "Best to say nothing and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Whops!! I just removed the doubt.

[JPG]

I am guessing Ed's point is that a measured radial line is not relevant since it cannot be used for the table alignment.

That is why SS uses a single point/tooth as the reference.

In order for the 'master plate' to be used as a reference, it must be flat over the entire surface used.

We are swatting gnats(meaningful) again.

[dusty]

I am guessing Ed's point is that a measured radial line is not relevant since it cannot be used for the table alignment.

That is why SS uses a single point/tooth as the reference.

In order for the 'master plate' to be used as a reference, it must be flat over the entire surface used.

We are swatting gnats(meaningful) again.

Remembering that: This is a wood working class!

How flat is flat? My new toy is advertised to be flat to within .002". Is that flat?

[jsburger]

I am guessing Ed's point is that a measured radial line is not relevant since it cannot be used for the table alignment.

That is why SS uses a single point/tooth as the reference.

In order for the 'master plate' to be used as a reference, it must be flat over the entire surface used.

We are swatting gnats(meaningful) again.

Remembering that: This is a wood working class!

How flat is flat? My new toy is advertised to be flat to within .002". Is that flat?

YES!

Dusty, you are the one that has fueled the fire here over alignment. I have NO problem with that. I love the talk and don't want you to stop. Playing with all you're and others ideas is fun.

How flat is flat? That depends on the engineers drawing of what the part should be or your own perception/idea of what is flat. It depends on the media we are working with as to what is flat enough. This is not the Space Shuttle. If you think +- 0.001 is flat then so be it. If not then is +-0.0001 flat? Is there anything today that is +- 0.000000000? That would be flat but maybe not if we go out one more digit.

You have said that 0.005 is your standard so what is wrong with the Master Plate that is 0.001?

Shopsmith has provided alignment instructions for their machines since day one. They seem to work for most people. If you want to strive for better accuracy I applaud you and please keep it up.

[JPG]

Is flat to within 0.xxx good enough?

Depends upon how good a 'reference' you need.

Regardless of what is 'good enough', it must be so over all so it can be referenced anywhere on it's surface.

[dusty]

Details, details

[dusty]

I have received some email feed back on my introduction to the set up plate that I recently acquired (My New Toy). Some read my comments in the thread as unreasonably critical and others feel that the application of a dial indicator is absolutely unnecessary.

I wholeheartedly agree with the later statement. Alignment can be achieved without a dial indicator.

Mark V Main Table Alignment (the simplest method I know).

Some assumptions to start with:

When properly aligned, the left face of the saw blade will be on the table insert center line. This further assumes that the carriage and headstock are pushed firmly against the rubber bumper, that the rubber bumper is standard Shopsmith dimensions and that the quill is fully retracted. Of course, all locks are secured.

Furthermore, the holes for all four trunion bolts have been drilled to a ½” diameter. On some rear trunions these holes are only 3/8” in diameter.

Procedure:

Loosen all four trunion bolts and apply pressure to the right side of the Main Table. The table will slide left until the table makes contact with the trunion bolts. At this point the table (the miter tracks) will be very nearly parallel to the saw blade and the center line will be at the left face of the blade.

Make measures by whatever method suits you to verify parallelism of the miter tracks to the blade. Even a simple measurement using a steel rule will confirm this.

If parallelism does exist, tighten the trunion bolts and go make saw dust.

Doing what has been described here and NOTHING more, the blade on the subject Mark V is .008” closer to the miter track on the outfeed side than it is on the infeed side. Some may consider this a hazard due to the potential to squeeze the blade against the rip fence. I do not consider this a safety issue at .008" but if it was I would compensate for that when I adjust my rip fence.

The piece of Baltic birch plywood that you see in these photos measures 1 28/64” while the setup plate measures 8/64”. The table cutout measures 3 1/64" wide. You can use that data for whatever purpose it might serve.

NOTE: No fancy tools, no micrometers, no dial indicators. Just a feeler gauge and a couple of standard Shopsmith accessories.

This, BTW, is the procedure I was taught when I acquired my first Mark V.