A general motor question??

[reible]

The 10ER I got the previous owner mention it was "running weak". When I took it apart I found that the wires to the motor were connect by strands of wire only the rest had broken off. I figured that was the reason for it "running weak". No way to be sure as everything is apart right now.

I was unable to get the case open. The bearings feel fine and it very very smooth so I don't see that as an issue but I had hoped to have a look around and give it a clean out. It is really clean inside from what I can see but who knows what lurks in the depths.

I have it taped and partially painted at this point so I can't see the label but it is an Atlas motor. When I tried to find details on it online I was not able to find them. The motor looks to be from the late 40's to maybe as late as the mid 1950's. It has dual shafts, a feature I'd like to take advantage of if I can.

My power plan is to wire a short cord off the motor and plug that into a switched cord end that uses the power on off switch in the head stock. I'd like to be able to remove the motor without having to do any rewiring or pulling lugs.

I should have the painting done this week and want to connect a cord to run the motor. There is a cover plate with 3 screw terminals beneath. The black wire was hooked to the terminal 1, the number 2 terminal had nothing connected (at least on the side you can see) and the white wire was on terminal 3. As it was wired there was no safety ground, that will be corrected.

So anyone care to guess what terminal 2 might be for? If you have a guess can you also tell me how I would test your suggestion with a meter? Again if I could have gotten inside I could have traced the wires but that is not happening.

Of course it really doesn't matter but just kind of wondering so while I work on other things I'll see what you smart people think.

Ed

[JPG]

In addition to the external 'line cord' input wires, were there any 'internal' wires connected to terminals #1 and #3?

At the very least, I would check resistance between the three terminals(you will likely be measuring fractional ohms. That 'might' provide a clue as to what terminal #2 is.

Oh and check resistance from case to each terminal.

Does the name plate specify more than one voltage?

I would speculate the three terminals are used when dual voltage is an option and would have 2 internal wires connected on the outside. The two terminals(#1,#3) provide for lower voltage(coils parallel) or higher voltage(coils series with #2 providing the series connection). The start circuit would be in parallel with one of the coils.

[reible]

From the chassis (grd) there are no connects to any of the terminals(reading open circuit).

Two wires were on the user side so I removed them to do the readings.

Between terminals 1 and 2 I see 1.2 ohms
Between terminals 1 and 3 I see 1.6 ohms
Between terminals 2 and 3 I see .6 ohms


The user side wires were on terminals 1 and 2, my guess is that they go to the cap. One has a marker which I can see going into the sealed cap, the other wire is nondescript but it seems reasonable that it too would go to the cap.[correction, I said 2 and 3 but it was really 1 and 2, it helps to have the information correct.....]

As soon as the paint is dry I will be able to unmask the motor plate.

Ed

[JPG]

From the chassis (grd) there are no connects to any of the terminals(reading open circuit).

Two wires were on the user side so I removed them to do the readings.

Between terminals 1 and 2 I see 1.2 ohms
Between terminals 1 and 3 I see 1.6 ohms
Between terminals 2 and 3 I see .6 ohms


The user side wires were on terminals 2 and 3, my guess is that they go to the cap. One has a marker which I can see going into the sealed cap, the other wire is nondescript but it seems reasonable that it too would go to the cap.

As soon as the paint is dry I will be able to unmask the motor plate.

Ed

Which two terminals were those two wires attached(1,3 ?***) and what is the resistance from each to the three terminals?(unattached).

The start circuit should be 'open' due to the series capacitor.

*** is 2,3 the answer?

[reible]

So the paint was dry enough for me to pull the masking tape.

No indication that it has voltage options.......

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The only other thing that I did not mention is this red button, I thought perhaps a thermal overload? I check that and it is in its closed or conducting state.

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I measured from each of the now non connected wires to all of the terminals and found no connections.

The two internal wire were attached to terminals 1 and 2. Previous post had this wrong but it has been fixed.

20170807_182745_resized.jpg (301.66 KiB) Viewed 8765 times

Ed

[rpd]

Is there a label on the inside of the plate that covers the terminal block. Often the information about connections is there.

On my latest 10er there was a label there, but the last person who had been in there had re mounted it with the label out, and it was faded so much it was illegible.

On the motor plate it doesn’t specify if it's clockwise or counter clockwise, they usually do, but perhaps with it having a shaft at both ends that would be redundant.

I did find some historical information on the Atlas Press Co. on the Vintage Machinery site. http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/de ... d=51&tab=0

[JPG]

I am going to hazard some guesses.

The internal wires(with 'nice' ring terminals) externally connected are the start circuit.

Reversing those wires causes rotation reversal.(reason for terminal 2).

The run windings are internally connected to terminal 1 and 2.


The over temp(cutout) switch is connected between terminals 2 and 3.

Since you have access to the capacitor and cutout switch, some of this can verified/disproved.

I am suspicious the cutout switch was causing the 'weakness' due to .6 ohm resistance(???).

That would make power input connected to 1 and 3.

[reible]

Is there a label on the inside of the plate that covers the terminal block. Often the information about connections is there.

On my latest 10er there was a label there, but the last person who had been in there had re mounted it with the label out, and it was faded so much it was illegible.

On the motor plate it doesn’t specify if it's clockwise or counter clockwise, they usually do, but perhaps with it having a shaft at both ends that would be redundant.

I did find some historical information on the Atlas Press Co. on the Vintage Machinery site. http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/de ... d=51&tab=0

No label anywhere. Well there might have been one years ago but certainly not anymore.

Yes I did notice that the rotation was missing, not sure if they did that back then or perhaps it is wire to run either way, which it already does being it is a dual shaft.

I did check vintagemachinery and they have a lot of stuff but I couldn't find a reference to this motor, I even looked at a few machines to see if I could find it but after a couple of hours I just gave up, too much work.

I do recall seeing ads for their machines in the back of magazines in the day. They seem like a nice company with good products.

Ed

[reible]

I am going to hazard some guesses.

The internal wires(with 'nice' ring terminals) externally connected are the start circuit.

Reversing those wires causes rotation reversal.(reason for terminal 2).

The run windings are internally connected to terminal 1 and 2.


The over temp(cutout) switch is connected between terminals 2 and 3.

Since you have access to the capacitor and cutout switch, some of this can verified/disproved.

I am suspicious the cutout switch was causing the 'weakness' due to .6 ohm resistance(???).

That would make power input connected to 1 and 3.

OK I did a sketch of what I think you said.... The cut-out is the switch on top and then added what I think a second switch would do reversing wise. I'd more then likely want another switch in the headstock to turn it on and off and the reversing switch somewhere else.......

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If the cut out switch is bad I can live without it. Since it will not be unattended that shouldn't be an issue I don't think.

Ed

[JPG]

NOPE!

Like this:

ed's motor wiring.jpg (160.82 KiB) Viewed 8727 times