510 Refurb - Quill advance questions

[Weekendmedic]

First post here, but I truly appreciate this forum and the wealth of knowledge here. I grew up in a Shopsmith family, used Dad's Mark V from the year I turned 10, and have my own machine now. A friend's garage sale last weekend proved I am my father's son, as I went looking for a belt sander and left with a truckload including a poorly maintained 510.

I've never seen a Shopsmith this rusty (it was stored in a damp basement, then a damp garage), but most everything turns and seems to work. I had no plan to turn it on until I'd gone over it, but the seller grabbed an extension cord and fired it up to prove it worked, and it purred - best sounding headstock I've heard in years).

When I got it home and started cleaning and waxing, I noticed the quill wouldn't advance. I finally found time to tear it down yesterday, and was very surprised to find that the quill handle shaft had a keyway slot cut in it, and that the headstock casting had a steel sleeve in it with a matching slot. After 3 hours of frustrated fiddling I finally got the shaft to slide out and found that there is a key bar in that slot which (to my eye anyway) is why the quill won't advance. (in the photo below you can see the sleeve (red arrow), and the key (green arrow). The quill advance shaft is held in place for the photo by being placed backwards in the headstock casting near the speed control)

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SS diagram seems to indicate that the keyslot and key are done at the factory (see number 42). I have two other Mark V headstocks on hand, neither seems to have the protruding steel sleeve in the photo above, I haven't torn them down to see if the shaft is keyed.

quill assembly parts diagram SS.jpg (37.62 KiB) Viewed 9682 times

1. Should this key be there? Without it, my handle turns freely but with it I can't advance the quill at all.

2. In the process of removing this shaft, I've stripped the set screw that secures the quill spring - I've used penetrating fluid, heat, was very careful and still managed to strip it - any tricks to getting it out?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, much appreciated!

Eric

[reible]

Welcome to the forum!

Quick answers are:

1. Yes the key should be there. The one you picture is damaged, perhaps it could be filed other wise replaced. It fits a key slot that is the same rounded shape and the flat portions should be parallel to the shaft and the bushing should slide over it. Those are called woodruff keys.

If you have pulled the shaft and did not know about the string trick you will have to fish out the washer that has no doubt dropped off the shaft. It is a top hat sort of washer and it needs to be there to get the quill to tighten/lock, ie not move in or out. No.53 in your diagram.

2. Not sure which screw you stripped, do you have the # that are you talking about? And by stripped do you mean the screw head or the threads? If you have taken the spring off they can be fun to attach again........... and by fun I don't really mean fun. If you haven't taken it out then think twice if it really needs to be done, it can be cleaned pretty well while installed.

I'm now wondering if you are talking about #41....... it is drive screw and that is best not messed with unless it is damaged.

Anyway this is a start and others will follow with what they think.

Ed

[JPG]

Red arrow - That is two parts 74 and 75. 75 is a wave washer and is toast. 74 is a sleeve with a keyway that the woodruff key mates to - also toast.

CLIPBOARD0.JPG (68.43 KiB) Viewed 9630 times

The washer should separate from the sleeve with a wedge(chisel) forced into the crack separating them.

Removing the sleeve will likely be a SOB to get out without damaging the softer aluminum headstock casting. It DOES have to go.

I assume the set screw is #45. You may need to drill it out and use an 'easy out'. A brand new hex 5/32" hex wrench may help(less likely to slip).

BTW IIRC the quill shaft MUST exit out the other side(quill spring housing end.

The spherical washer Ed referred to is likely still on the shaft. It may also be seized to the sleeve.

You need some powerful penetrating fluid and gentle impact applied to the sleeve to get it out/in(Getting it to move either direction is progress). Heat may be required(cold sleeve, hot casting. Do be careful to not be a gorilla and break the casting.

P.S. after reviewing your initial post, I fear you have damaged #41. Not good news. It can be 'fixed' by replacing the 'drive screw', but removing the broken stem is near impossible because it is very hard.

[Weekendmedic]

Good morning - thanks for the quick and detailed replies, I think I have answers to your questions -

#41 (spring pin) is intact, and my spring is still attached to the shaft (and the outer cast collar is also attached to the collar.

I stripped out #45, the allen screw that holds #39 in place - #39 slid out, it's scratched from the allen screw, but otherwise intact. I'm in a holding pattern for a few days, the correct size EZ-out is missing from my set so I'm waiting on Amazon for a new one.

#53, the hat shaped washer was bonded to the inside of the sleeve (#74) and stayed put when the shaft slid out - I have it and can reinstall it when needed.

I'm pretty confused by the need for #74 (sleeve) and #42 (woodruff key), as they seem to be what locked my quill from advancing. Is the sleeve stationary on a properly functioning quill? or does it rotate with the #43 shaft?

Thanks again, this is further than dad or I have ever stripped a Mark 5, looking forward to getting this working again...

Eric

[Weekendmedic]

oh, and JPG - the wave washer is not pictured in the photo with the red arrow - that appears to be the end of the sleeve itself. (assuming here that the wave washer you reference is a flat washer with a ripple in it, that is tightened by the quill lock knob).

Eric

[JPG]

oh, and JPG - the wave washer is not pictured in the photo with the red arrow - that appears to be the end of the sleeve itself. (assuming here that the wave washer you reference is a flat washer with a ripple in it, that is tightened by the quill lock knob).

Eric

Correct.

The keyed sleeve, key, wave washer, spherical washer and the wing nut are what locks the quill feed when desired.

Unlocked the sleeve rotates in the headstock bore caused by the key connecting the shaft to the sleeve.

When it is desired to lock, the wingnut is tightened causing the wave washer to 'flatten' until it presses firmly against the sleeve. Further tightening will cause the sleeve to move inward and press the spherical washer against the rib inside the headstock. Friction them prevents all that stuff from rotating.

The nice thing about the wave washer is that partial flattening provides partial braking so the quill can be adjusted, but will hold position.

P.S. I think the wave washer is flattened and rusted to the sleeve.

[Weekendmedic]

JPG - you may be right. I bought the machine from a friend who is a retired machinist, so it's entirely possible that there are extra parts on the machine or that it's not entirely stock. I can take more photos tonight to help figure this out, I know I took one washer off that side and it's still on my bench (and not flat).

I'll grab more pics tonight, thanks!

Eric

[reible]

Good morning - thanks for the quick and detailed replies, I think I have answers to your questions -

#41 (spring pin) is intact, and my spring is still attached to the shaft (and the outer cast collar is also attached to the collar.

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This is good, that spring pin can be a major issue to attempt to replace.
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I stripped out #45, the allen screw that holds #39 in place - #39 slid out, it's scratched from the allen screw, but otherwise intact. I'm in a holding pattern for a few days, the correct size EZ-out is missing from my set so I'm waiting on Amazon for a new one.

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While you are waiting soak the parts in what ever your favorite penetrating oil is, and don't forget you will need a new setscrew..... the good news is that is one of the few setscrews on a shopsmith that you can get at the hardware store.
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#53, the hat shaped washer was bonded to the inside of the sleeve (#74) and stayed put when the shaft slid out - I have it and can reinstall it when needed.

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OK then it was not installed correctly. The casting inside that it pushes against would not permit you to remove the assembly with the washer in place. So clean it up and hold on to it for when you reassemble the unit.
******

I'm pretty confused by the need for #74 (sleeve) and #42 (woodruff key), as they seem to be what locked my quill from advancing. Is the sleeve stationary on a properly functioning quill? or does it rotate with the #43 shaft?

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The shaft has the key and the sleeve has a keyway so yes they are designed to turn with each other. The sleeve turns in the headstock.
******

Thanks again, this is further than dad or I have ever stripped a Mark 5, looking forward to getting this working again...

Eric

See comments within above.

Ed

[JPG]

. . .

#53, the hat shaped washer was bonded to the inside of the sleeve (#74) and stayed put when the shaft slid out - I have it and can reinstall it when needed.

******
OK then it was not installed correctly. The casting inside that it pushes against would not permit you to remove the assembly with the washer in place. So clean it up and hold on to it for when you reassemble the unit.
******
. . .

Eric

See comments within above.

Ed

??? The key and shaft will slip through the washer center.

[reible]

Yes you are correct...... I missed the part where it was bonded to the sleeve.

One of the used machines I got the previous owner said the quill would not lock and he was right, he had taken it apart and had the washer drop in the housing and when he put it back together it would no longer lock...... anyway I've tried to pull the shaft and keep the washer in place on the shaft and it doesn't happen or didn't for me. To much casting to get by without it falling off.

As it happened I was just inside mine this morning, some spring noise with the quill feed....... that I hope I solved. I had used the string trick to recover and replace the washer so it was fresh in my mind. And since without a picture it didn't happen here is the picture:

20170912_100718_resized.jpg (347.57 KiB) Viewed 9555 times

While it was apart a little lube for the quill and then re-adjusted the spring tension on the quill, it was a little loose for my taste as a drill press.

Ed