10ER rebuild

[jsburger]

Timken bearings owns the Fafnir line now so when you specify original Fafnir bearings they may be in a Timken box. The bearing it self should still say Fafnir on it as Timken still uses that name for it's ball bearings.

Here are the numbers...

Drive Sleeve 205KLL2
Quill 202KLL3

I sugest you check A&W Bearings in Dallas.

http://www.awbearings.com/

You think having them shipped would be better than getting them from a place local to me? When I worked at the fitness shop, we always went into Detroit Ball Bearing and they were awesome for anything we needed. They got bought out or name changed to Applied Industrial Technologies but were always top notch after that as well. Was thinking of stopping in there tomorrow. I'm half an hour's drive from Traverse City, MI, and will be going into the bike shop there tomorrow to deliver a few computers anyway.

https://www.applied.com/

I have no idea. It was just a suggestion to check. As I said in my post A&W was cheaper including shipping than my local Motion Industries. That was over a year ago so it may not be true any more.

[jsburger]

'Extra' width is likely a problem. I believe it needs to be 15mm.

The 200 series Fafnir bearings of which we speak all have an extra wide inner race. It is not much however.

Check page D18 in the Timken catalog.

https://www.timken.com/wp-content/uploa ... atalog.pdf

[badtheba]

I just stopped in my local bearing supplier for pricing. Everything he quoted was C3 clearance, including the jointer bearings. The document on Everett's Google drive indicates I should insist on C1 clearance, but the local guy said "if" I can track them down, they'd be pricier. His prices on C3 were about the same as what Everett said Motion Industries sold C0 ones for. Looks like I'll be making a call to Texas. I'm thinking I'll put off replacing the bearings until I have the tool cleaned up and operational, give myself more time to figure out if the clearance codes matter that much. Getting them close to home would save around $20 shipping. Strange that the exact same number bearing wouldn't be the same everywhere for every supplier.

[JPG]

I just stopped in my local bearing supplier for pricing. Everything he quoted was C3 clearance, including the jointer bearings. The document on Everett's Google drive indicates I should insist on C1 clearance, but the local guy said "if" I can track them down, they'd be pricier. His prices on C3 were about the same as what Everett said Motion Industries sold C0 ones for. Looks like I'll be making a call to Texas. I'm thinking I'll put off replacing the bearings until I have the tool cleaned up and operational, give myself more time to figure out if the clearance codes matter that much. Getting them close to home would save around $20 shipping. Strange that the exact same number bearing wouldn't be the same everywhere for every supplier.

What, you want price fixing?

[jsburger]

I just stopped in my local bearing supplier for pricing. Everything he quoted was C3 clearance, including the jointer bearings. The document on Everett's Google drive indicates I should insist on C1 clearance, but the local guy said "if" I can track them down, they'd be pricier. His prices on C3 were about the same as what Everett said Motion Industries sold C0 ones for. Looks like I'll be making a call to Texas. I'm thinking I'll put off replacing the bearings until I have the tool cleaned up and operational, give myself more time to figure out if the clearance codes matter that much. Getting them close to home would save around $20 shipping. Strange that the exact same number bearing wouldn't be the same everywhere for every supplier.

Everett has not fully explained it yet and it needs to be clarified. There are two different specifications. C3 refers to the internal bearing clearance of the races and the balls. When Everett says C1 what he actually means is ABEC1 which is a tolerance specification of all the parts of the bearing. Think, the outer race diameter is 1" +- .001 as an example. The ABEC1 specification makes the original Fafnir bearing in the 10ER a precision bearing.

The original 10E was built with precision bearings according to printed documentation. The Fafnir bearings specified in the 10E/ER documentation (205KLL2 & 202KLL3) are in fact ABEC1 which makes them a precision bearing. However, their internal clearance is C3. To be called a precision bearing the bearing must conform as a minimum to the ABEC1 specification.

Yes it is confusing because a lot of people don't understand the difference.

The picture is of the bearings in an A.O. Smith 1/2HP motor from a 10ER. The bearing is the original I removes from the motor. The box is from the exact replacement new bearing. Notice the box says C3/ABEC1. That makes it a precision bearing with a C3 internal clearance.

[badtheba]

I just stopped in my local bearing supplier for pricing. Everything he quoted was C3 clearance, including the jointer bearings. The document on Everett's Google drive indicates I should insist on C1 clearance, but the local guy said "if" I can track them down, they'd be pricier. His prices on C3 were about the same as what Everett said Motion Industries sold C0 ones for. Looks like I'll be making a call to Texas. I'm thinking I'll put off replacing the bearings until I have the tool cleaned up and operational, give myself more time to figure out if the clearance codes matter that much. Getting them close to home would save around $20 shipping. Strange that the exact same number bearing wouldn't be the same everywhere for every supplier.

What, you want price fixing?

No, I want a number that identifies a product, when looked up on a search, to return results for that same product everywhere. I wasn't speaking about price as much as I was speaking about not really knowing what bearing you'd get if you were to order the bearing by number. Apparently the clearance code is not part of the part number, so you have to specify it. If you read Everett's document on it it almost sounds like a bearing supplier conspiracy to pass the cheaper ones off as matches for tighter clearance ones. We're talking all Fafnir bearings here, but apparently middlemen that can't be trusted.

[badtheba]

I just stopped in my local bearing supplier for pricing. Everything he quoted was C3 clearance, including the jointer bearings. The document on Everett's Google drive indicates I should insist on C1 clearance, but the local guy said "if" I can track them down, they'd be pricier. His prices on C3 were about the same as what Everett said Motion Industries sold C0 ones for. Looks like I'll be making a call to Texas. I'm thinking I'll put off replacing the bearings until I have the tool cleaned up and operational, give myself more time to figure out if the clearance codes matter that much. Getting them close to home would save around $20 shipping. Strange that the exact same number bearing wouldn't be the same everywhere for every supplier.

Everett has not fully explained it yet and it needs to be clarified. There are two different specifications. C3 refers to the internal bearing clearance of the races and the balls. When Everett says C1 what he actually means is ABEC1 which is a tolerance specification of all the parts of the bearing. Think, the outer race diameter is 1" +- .001 as an example. The ABEC1 specification makes the original Fafnir bearing in the 10ER a precision bearing.

The original 10E was built with precision bearings according to printed documentation. The Fafnir bearings specified in the 10E/ER documentation (205KLL2 & 202KLL3) are in fact ABEC1 which makes them a precision bearing. However, their internal clearance is C3. To be called a precision bearing the bearing must conform as a minimum to the ABEC1 specification.

Yes it is confusing because a lot of people don't understand the difference.

The picture is of the bearings in an A.O. Smith 1/2HP motor from a 10ER. The bearing is the original I removes from the motor. The box is from the exact replacement new bearing. Notice the box says C3/ABEC1. That makes it a precision bearing with a C3 internal clearance.

So if I ordered them by Fafnir part number, and the supplier's computer says they are C3 internal clearance, they are a match to the original? Maybe I shouldn't have been nervous about them selling me the wrong thing. I went in with page 2 printed from that document not knowing what I was asking for.

[jsburger]

I just stopped in my local bearing supplier for pricing. Everything he quoted was C3 clearance, including the jointer bearings. The document on Everett's Google drive indicates I should insist on C1 clearance, but the local guy said "if" I can track them down, they'd be pricier. His prices on C3 were about the same as what Everett said Motion Industries sold C0 ones for. Looks like I'll be making a call to Texas. I'm thinking I'll put off replacing the bearings until I have the tool cleaned up and operational, give myself more time to figure out if the clearance codes matter that much. Getting them close to home would save around $20 shipping. Strange that the exact same number bearing wouldn't be the same everywhere for every supplier.

What, you want price fixing?

No, I want a number that identifies a product, when looked up on a search, to return results for that same product everywhere. I wasn't speaking about price as much as I was speaking about not really knowing what bearing you'd get if you were to order the bearing by number. Apparently the clearance code is not part of the part number, so you have to specify it. If you read Everett's document on it it almost sounds like a bearing supplier conspiracy to pass the cheaper ones off as matches for tighter clearance ones. We're talking all Fafnir bearings here, but apparently middlemen that can't be trusted.

Unfortunately you are not going to get that in the bearing world and it has never been that way.

There is way more than the number on the box.You have to know exactly what you want and specify it. Likely it will have a different SKU but the number on the box will be the same. If you want a Fafnir equivalent bearing and get it from a manufacturer other than Timken I would be suspect that it is the same.

Big time bearing manufactures have a code for all the specs for their bearings. Unfortunately these codes vary by manufacturer. They have never been standardized for some reason. Basically the number on the box will tell you the type of bearing, the size, probably the type of seal/shields and not much else. There is no room on the box to include the complete specification. Many bearings of the same size are available in many different specifications.

There are hundreds of codes to specify things like the grease, type of material the races are made of, etc.. The list is almost endless.

Many (most) cheap Chinese knock offs conform to the basic size but not much else. Do you really believe a $4 Chinese "equivalent" is equal to a $30 Fafnir original?

The attachment shows the Fafnir numbering system.

[badtheba]

Many (most) cheap Chinese knock offs conform to the basic size but not much else. Do you really believe a $4 Chinese "equivalent" is equal to a $30 Fafnir original?.

No, not exactly what I'm meaning either. I guess I was terribly confused by the wording in Everett's document about what bearings were originally in the 10e/ER, leading me to believe that 4-5 Fafnir brand bearings side by side with all the same part number could potentially be different. If I'm understanding you correctly, his document must be comparing Fafnir to all other options people might go for, and not Fafnir to Fafnir?

I'm sorry if I'm way out in left field on this one.

[jsburger]

Many (most) cheap Chinese knock offs conform to the basic size but not much else. Do you really believe a $4 Chinese "equivalent" is equal to a $30 Fafnir original?.

No, not exactly what I'm meaning either. I guess I was terribly confused by the wording in Everett's document about what bearings were originally in the 10e/ER, leading me to believe that 4-5 Fafnir brand bearings side by side with all the same part number could potentially be different. If I'm understanding you correctly, his document must be comparing Fafnir to all other options people might go for, and not Fafnir to Fafnir?

I'm sorry if I'm way out in left field on this one.

I would have to reread Everett's document to which you refer to refresh my memory.

Not all bearings come in all these specifications. In the case of the Fafnir 200 series bearings the specs are the same given the number I believe. If you order a genuine Fafnir 205KLL2 you will get an original C3 clearance ABEC1 bearing that Magna used. If you order an equivalent from anyone else all bets are off. IMO it is worth spending a few extra dollars for a known product that you will never have to replace rather than an unknown.

As far as being in left field, no problem. This is all very confusing given the terms thrown around. I have been working with Everett on some of his documents and this is one of the things I want to mention to him. He has been out of pocket since before the holidays but he will be back and chime in I am sure.