Brass wedge locks

[badtheba]

Are the wedges you are talking about from the Model 10ER pictured in the Model 10ER rebuild thread you originally started that has the Model 4E Jointer? I just went back and looked at the pictures. That one does not have a keyed quill lock and will use either the plain double or single wedge lock. Can you post a picture of the front and back side of the headstock so we can tell what it needs?

No, the wedge locks on my second 10ER (the one I am not restoring) are two piece. The one in my rebuild thread has no issues locking or unlocking.

All three appear to be correct for the machine, including the quill lock. I have seen a few other pics online of the front quill wedge with a pin in it, so I assumed it was something they did in production. But since the pin actually seems to contact the quill and "peen" over, then you're probably right that this is someone's modification.

The tube lock wedges are noticeably mashed. I'm going to start by cutting or filling off the inside ends, as it looks like they smashed down worst where the material was thinnest. One of them actually formed threads on the end of the bolt so it has to be unscrewed with the inner nut.

I'll take pics as soon as I get them back.

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Skip Campbell has a youtube video on how to restore the wedges. When the wedges are squeezed closed so the handle can not be removed he uses a pin punch laid length wise in the opening and gently taps on it to open the slot. Depending on how closed the slot is will determine the diameter of the pin punch to start with. You end up with a 1/4" pin punch. Just tap gently and progress up in the pin punch diameter until you get to 1/4".

I have done this and no filing required. It works perfectly. This is with the one piece wedge so I don't know if the two piece wedges are the same.

I haven't seen the video but I have seen that page on his website. However, the locks in question have no slot. The bolt goes through both front and back wedge and threads into a nut that's recessed into a hex shape in the back wedge.

[jsburger]

No, the wedge locks on my second 10ER (the one I am not restoring) are two piece. The one in my rebuild thread has no issues locking or unlocking.

All three appear to be correct for the machine, including the quill lock. I have seen a few other pics online of the front quill wedge with a pin in it, so I assumed it was something they did in production. But since the pin actually seems to contact the quill and "peen" over, then you're probably right that this is someone's modification.

The tube lock wedges are noticeably mashed. I'm going to start by cutting or filling off the inside ends, as it looks like they smashed down worst where the material was thinnest. One of them actually formed threads on the end of the bolt so it has to be unscrewed with the inner nut.

I'll take pics as soon as I get them back.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Skip Campbell has a youtube video on how to restore the wedges. When the wedges are squeezed closed so the handle can not be removed he uses a pin punch laid length wise in the opening and gently taps on it to open the slot. Depending on how closed the slot is will determine the diameter of the pin punch to start with. You end up with a 1/4" pin punch. Just tap gently and progress up in the pin punch diameter until you get to 1/4".

I have done this and no filing required. It works perfectly. This is with the one piece wedge so I don't know if the two piece wedges are the same.

I haven't seen the video but I have seen that page on his website. However, the locks in question have no slot. The bolt goes through both front and back wedge and threads into a nut that's recessed into a hex shape in the back wedge.

That is what I thought but I wasn't sure.

[badtheba]

Here are my wedge lock sets from the 10ER in question.

IMG_20180223_205537315.jpg (434.5 KiB) Viewed 6784 times

It is apparent that the inside 1/8" or more of each way tube wedge does not contact the tubes. I'm wondering if it would work to remove these ends of the wedges and place a spring in the middle similar to the spring the quill lock has, and if that would help with part of the issue (the back wedge sticking). Of course I would also have to file or drill out the inside of the back wedge to remove the "threads" that have formed so that the nut is the only part that engages with the bolt threads. The problem does not seem to be with the headstock bore size, as even the ovoid wedges slip right into the bores. I don't think smashing them back to round or removing material from the outside of the wedges will improve anything since that part isn't tight.

Regarding the quill lock, one of my earlier photos in this thread taken from an eBay listing also shows wedges with steel pins driven in. The front quill lock wedge is also much longer than the way tube wedges so I can't see that someone would have taken a wedge from elsewhere and modified it. It seems I've come across a few other pics of wedges with this same type steel pin that would fit into the keyway.

As the last two pics show, the pin appears to be contacting the quill and pressing back into the softer metal. I can rock it back and forth and it slips right out of the deformed hole. I was thinking of drilling a hole the same size further back from the quill and reinserting the pin. The keyway in the headstock is undamaged. However, this quill lock was not inserted when I picked up the machine, but was loose in the "box of parts". So it is possible a previous user left it out because of having an issue with it.

IMG_20180223_205549660.jpg (322.3 KiB) Viewed 6784 times

IMG_20180223_205557809.jpg (310.5 KiB) Viewed 6784 times

[everettdavis]

The latter versions with the pin and tab must fit into the slot they milled into the later headstock quill lock hole presumably to keep the wedges aligned.

I don't believe the brass ones were in the early 10E's very long at all.

With regard to the question where someone 'got' a set that you mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe they used the word 'got' in the context of 'acquired' but in the context of "have" as in "I have these" meaning more "I got these with the machine".

I have one 10ER that is of a higher serial number range that may well have the slot and the pin, but it is on the schedule as the last machine I have to restore. It's buried in the shop at the back, so I can't verify that it has the tab and pin.

Here's a few photos of the locks that shows the earlier locks including the brass ones.

I cannot fathom how you could not find a brass rod of suitable size and fabricate a set in the shop, especially a machine shop.

As you can tell, the brass inner wedge was threaded opposed to a recessed nut.

They were the same dimensions, so you can measure yours and fabricate a set I feel certain.

I plan to make a set myself, and I will take a piece of hardwood, angle bore a flat hole in the side of it that allows the brass rod to protrude at the angle of the wedge, then I will use the sanding disk to remove the material for the wedge itself. Should be simple enough to do.

My three jaw lathe chuck and drill chuck on arbor / MT2 in tail stock should allow me to both drill and tap the pieces as needed.

I hope the photos help answer your questions.

Everett

Brass Lock Wedges Comparison.jpg (135 KiB) Viewed 6768 times

[everettdavis]

I to this day never understood why they did not use a wedge on both sides 180 degrees apart which would allow you to use the 2nd side if they became deformed in some way (two wedge faces), before you had to replace / resurface them.

Everett

[badtheba]

With regard to the question where someone 'got' a set that you mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe they used the word 'got' in the context of 'acquired' but in the context of "have" as in "I have these" meaning more "I got these with the machine".

...

I cannot fathom how you could not find a brass rod of suitable size and fabricate a set in the shop, especially a machine shop.

Actually I posted on that user's old thread, and he looked up a PayPal invoice and PM'd me the contact info for the vendor. The vendor's last post on these forums was 2014, and they haven't responded yet to my direct email, so I'm guessing they are inactive. He made it sound like they were newly machined parts.

I plan to have the discussion with my father in law this weekend. I'm sure he has brass rod of a suitable dimension and would know the most efficient way to machine these parts. Will update if I get them made.

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[badtheba]

I to this day never understood why they did not use a wedge on both sides 180 degrees apart which would allow you to use the 2nd side if they became deformed in some way (two wedge faces), before you had to replace / resurface them.

Everett

As mine are basically smashed/flattened worst where the taper is the thinnest, I'd guess if there were two faces ground opposite each other it would collapse on the bolt that much easier and actually form threads in the alloy sooner, as mine have. The section opposite the angle may actually provide support (although the material is too soft to have it matter much).

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[JPG]

I consider wedge wear to be a nit so to speak. Yes it occurs, but extremely slowly My goldie has the original wedges. Yes they are worn and tend to stick, but tis simple to push in and release it. Only when I am already in thar and the headstock is on the bench will they get attention.(unless they stick far worse)

BTW I think the soft alloy will work better than the brass(simply gut feel!). I believe they are soft for a reason.(automatic conformitry to the tube shape).

[jsburger]

I consider wedge wear to be a nit so to speak. Yes it occurs, but extremely slowly My goldie has the original wedges. Yes they are worn and tend to stick, but tis simple to push in and release it. Only when I am already in thar and the headstock is on the bench will they get attention.(unless they stick far worse)

BTW I think the soft alloy will work better than the brass(simply gut feel!). I believe they are soft for a reason.(automatic conformitry to the tube shape).

I certainly agree with you. I think the biggest culprit is over tightening over the years. The 3 MK V and 2 10ER's in use in the shop have no problems.

[rpd]

I found this on the Yahoo group, For the single wedge lock so not helpful to badtheba, but perhaps for someone who comes across this thread later.

brasswedgelocks.jpeg (150.53 KiB) Viewed 6718 times

brasslocksimg.jpeg (73.35 KiB) Viewed 6718 times