Alignment of power side extension table.

[Htrn]

I have an older model Mark 5 510 that I got from an uncle many years ago. I have not used it to its full potential but have used it for non critical table sawing, drill press, and sanding. I have recently come into possession of some beautiful pecan lumber and my wife wants me to make a table. I got out the manual and proceeded to do the alignment procedures which went well until I came to the one for aligning the extension table on the power side (left) of the machine. The manual says to mount the extension table on the power side, get it the same height as the worktable and lay a straightedge across the two. If there is a gap, the two tables can be made parallel by loosening the headrest lock and raising the way tubes off the rear pad and raising the setscrew to adjust the position of the powerplant and worktable in relation to the extension table. My problem is that when I get the way tubes shimmed up with washers enough to make the tables parallel as recommended before adjusting the setscrew; the headrest lock is too high to latch. When I get the tables parallel I have raised the way tubes about 3/8" and there is nowhere near that much adjustment allowed in the latch. Also the infeed side and the outfeed side of the table is out of level with the corresponding sides of the worktable. Where am I going wrong with this procedure?

[JPG]

Your problem is you rtfm!

IMHO that procedure is insane.

That big set screw is intended for a different purpose.(eliminate way tube twist left to right)

BTW washers??????

A better approach is to add the studs and multiple washer/nuts to the aux table so as to allow multidimensiona(two planes)l adjustment of the aux table.

Realize getting an aux table to align correctly on BOTH ends is unlikely.

Now which aux table do you have? 4 1/2" or 7 1/2"? Size????

Originally the aux tables were mounted to the 'legs' with bolts and washers.

The stud alteration includes 12 nuts and 12 washers in addition to the studs replacing the bolts.

Adjusting can get persnickety, but success IS possible.

[dusty]

I have an older model Mark 5 510 that I got from an uncle many years ago. I have not used it to its full potential but have used it for non critical table sawing, drill press, and sanding. I have recently come into possession of some beautiful pecan lumber and my wife wants me to make a table. I got out the manual and proceeded to do the alignment procedures which went well until I came to the one for aligning the extension table on the power side (left) of the machine. The manual says to mount the extension table on the power side, get it the same height as the worktable and lay a straightedge across the two. If there is a gap, the two tables can be made parallel by loosening the headrest lock and raising the way tubes off the rear pad and raising the setscrew to adjust the position of the powerplant and worktable in relation to the extension table. My problem is that when I get the way tubes shimmed up with washers enough to make the tables parallel as recommended before adjusting the setscrew; the headrest lock is too high to latch. When I get the tables parallel I have raised the way tubes about 3/8" and there is nowhere near that much adjustment allowed in the latch. Also the infeed side and the outfeed side of the table is out of level with the corresponding sides of the worktable. Where am I going wrong with this procedure?

I believe your issue is getting the top table surfaces to be coplanar. The set screw that you mention will not achieve that for you. If fact, Iscrewed mine down to be level with the casting and DO NOT use it.

To deal with your stated issue is depicted here and mentioned by JPG.

P9290013.JPG (155.52 KiB) Viewed 6648 times

P9290004.JPG (160.79 KiB) Viewed 6648 times

The nuts shown here are loose (procedure not finished). The table is held in place by the table tubes which are installed in and secured to the rails in the main table. In other words, I attach the tables together and then adjust the nuts accordingly. Hope this helps. I(f not - call back!

[JPG]

I would include a set of washers and jam nuts at the junction of the studs and the table bottom.

Since I could not count correctly last night, I am editing my original post above re washer/nut 'count'.

[Htrn]

Thanks for your replies. I am going out of town this week and will not be able to try out your suggestions until I get home. I did achieve success in aligning the tables with the drive as long as the aux table was in the right hand position. I don’t want to mess that up by changing the shimming of the tabletop to the posts. I will look over the whole situation again when I get back. Thanks again.

[dusty]

I don't totally understand BUT remember that the Main Table needs to be aligned before anything less. Once that has happened successfully the other tables can be aligned. The Main Table becomes ALL of the reference surfaces.

[DLB]

I agree with all that JPG and Dusty said. Getting the left and right accessory mounts aligned to one another in a way that allows accuracy sufficient to allow the extension table to be swapped left/right and maintain accurate alignment is extremely difficult, kind of the Holy Grail of Shopsmith alignment. And it is more difficult with a 510/520 because coplanar is not necessarily good enough, depending on what you are doing. The rail or tube system also needs to be in alignment in angle and offset.

The preferred solution is to procure a second extension table, to be known forever as the left extension table, and aligned for the left accessory mount.

I don't think any of the newer manuals contain the procedure you describe, I've never seen it. And I agree that it cannot be expected to work. What would be needed is a way to precisely align the left accessory mount to the right, or ultimately to the blade rotation. IMO the system was not designed or intended for that level of accuracy. My experience is that the main contributors to misalignment is how the system, especially the Headrest, is positioned while the Bench tubes are clamped to the end castings. I would guess that the factory has an alignment jig for this, but I doubt that this is accurate enough for the goal.

- David

[dusty]

I agree with all that JPG and Dusty said. Getting the left and right accessory mounts aligned to one another in a way that allows accuracy sufficient to allow the extension table to be swapped left/right and maintain accurate alignment is extremely difficult, kind of the Holy Grail of Shopsmith alignment. And it is more difficult with a 510/520 because coplanar is not necessarily good enough, depending on what you are doing. The rail or tube system also needs to be in alignment in angle and offset.

The preferred solution is to procure a second extension table, to be known forever as the left extension table, and aligned for the left accessory mount.

I don't think any of the newer manuals contain the procedure you describe, I've never seen it. And I agree that it cannot be expected to work. What would be needed is a way to precisely align the left accessory mount to the right, or ultimately to the blade rotation. IMO the system was not designed or intended for that level of accuracy. My experience is that the main contributors to misalignment is how the system, especially the Headrest, is positioned while the Bench tubes are clamped to the end castings. I would guess that the factory has an alignment jig for this, but I doubt that this is accurate enough for the goal.

- David

When I read this (ignoring my personal experiences) I would conclude that the left and right extension tables can not be used together with sacrificing accuracy "somewhere". I don't buy into that. If you can properly alignment the right side to the headstock and Main Table and then as an independent task do the same for the left side - why should the result not be interchangeable extension tables.

Both sides get aligned to the same "Main Table". With common reference surfaces, interchangeable alignments are achievable. This is not theory, I have done it.

What is not common. The headrest and the base assembly and their positioning with respect to one another. I first came to this conclusion when I bought 5' extension tubes and could not slide them into the rails on the right extension table, thru the rails on the main table and then into the left extension table. The left extension table was "out of place". For a long time, a very long time I was stumped by that.

Then along came double tilt.

I had a lot of parts so I began to assemble my own. I had no legs so I built my machine without legs (the base assemblies sitting on the top of a work bench). This appeared to be working until everything was assembled and secured. The bases did not sit firmly on the bench top. It wobbled.

I thought about this a lot and then decided that the tubes had to be my problem. I loosened the tubes in the base assemblies, clamp both of them to the work bench and then secured the tubes. That was the hard part. Gaining access to do do that. I drilled holes into the bench top to give me access (laying on the floor under the work bench) and the problem was solved.

The two ends were not properly aligned to one another causing the tubes to be skewed. An obvious indicator of this would have be to verify that all four extension table legs were plumb. They were not. I could plumb one end and the other end would be off.

Still another defective condition could give the same results. If the tubes (bench and way) are not inserted properly the same sort of torquing action occurs.

The new double tilt end assemblies reduce the likelihood of this happening. The "BENCH" tubes need to be inserted fully (against the stops).

[JPG]

The wobbling you referred to was the result of the twist(tubes not parallel) in the bench tubes.

Assuming that bench tube twist is corrected... the big set screw is there to eliminate a similar twist in the way tubes. The result of way tube twist is the headstock/table rotating as it is moved along the way tubes. Obviously that makes aux table co aligned(l/r) impossible.

That is why I disagree that monkeying with that set screw is a way to make left table alignment.

One must consider the bores in the base assemblies a possible cause as well.

Although I think it IS 'possible' to get near common alignment for both ends, it is extremely unlikely in our workshop environment.

Yes the double tilt is a possible improvement but I think it also is somewhat elusive due to too many tolerance buildups throughout the entire base assembly.

Using a laser, I got very close with my Goldie. Perfect, NO! Laser line through the entire machine from right aux table through headstock/shafts and onto the left aux table mount.

The setup did allow for correct big set screw adjustment. The rotation of the headstock when sliding l-r became quite apparent. Realize that is a separate issue from l-r aux table alignment which is why monkeying with that big set screw to attempt l-r aux table alignment is IMHO a mistake. However that way tube twist will affect spt shaft alignment(another example of why to not mess with the big set screw for spt shaft alignment).

[chapmanruss]

JPG,

You asked in your first post here,

Now which aux table do you have? 4 1/2" or 7 1/2"? Size????

Now I know you are a Goldie fan so we can let it slide but the Mark V 510 only has one size Aux. Table.

By the way, even though I do not have one right now I do like the Goldie colors best.