Newbie - order of operations

[EastWoodTurner]

Do you have the 12" sanding disk? See of you can look around your friend's garage for parts that neither of you recognized before.

I do not, it came with the table saw blade and a metal/steel cut off blade but neither is original. I know for using it as a lathe I will need the tailstock, live centers, tool rest, and a chuck (probably g3 as I could use it on future machines if need be)... all in it looks like it'll be around $100-150 for the Shopsmith specific pieces (based off ebay/craigslist/oem pricing) and then another $400+ for the nova and some chisels. Am I missing any other parts?

I plugged it in and turned it on, nothing. No noise, no whirling of parts, blew the breaker though so maybe thats a good/bad sign?

I'm going to attempt to attach some pictures with captions below, I'm sure most of you know what you are looking at...

Everything I got

File_000.jpg (54.33 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

How the speed dial was aligned when I got it

File_001.jpg (49.82 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Belt cover off, sawdust around drive sleeve?

File_003.jpg (43.75 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Lower belt pulley

File_004.jpg (55.47 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Detail of belt condition

File_005.jpg (43.58 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Wiring for switch

File_006.jpg (37.51 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

What I could photograph of the motor... hope this helps

File_007.jpg (53.65 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Part of the quill? Not sure... figured it was important to capture

File_008.jpg (58.9 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Screw on the end of motor spring was stripped so this is as far as I got for the time being

File_009.jpg (37.3 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

[JPG]

Pictures really help !

FWIW the hubs ( Upper left shaft and idler shaft ) are not installed correctly. The long one should go onto the upper left shaft with the narrow end facing the headstock. The short one should go onto the idler shaft.

The motor shaft did not have any screw(that hole is where the shaft was mounted on a metal lathes during manufacture). There is a small clip that retains the washer/spring(BEWARE OF THE SPRING TENSION). Look up how to handle that before attempting to remove the clip. Wiring looks good.

First thing to check is do the revolving things easily revolve.

Ohmmeter will help scoping out wiring/switch ... Tripped breaker with no hum and no motion MAY be a good sign.

Yes that is the quill pinion gear and locking washer.

Lotta dust to remove. Belt looks decent. You will need a way to manually rotate the shafts.

[EastWoodTurner]

FWIW the hubs ( Upper left shaft and idler shaft ) are not installed correctly. The long one should go onto the upper left shaft with the narrow end facing the headstock. The short one should go onto the idler shaft.

Just to clarify, we are talking A and B or B and C? Or something else completely? When I was removing the belt cover the diameter of A made a very snug fit to get off... so I'm guessing that was part of the issue?

File_000.jpg (45.65 KiB) Viewed 2462 times

I recalled reading about the retaining clip on the motor spring, but when I was in the garage it was deceiving and looked like a 5/32 hex... I read about making the board to compress the motor spring, but didn't want to get too far ahead of myself... if you couldn't tell I'm pretty eager to dive into this, but also don't want to start pulling off parts unnecessarily.

First thing to check is do the revolving things easily revolve.
You will need a way to manually rotate the shafts.

I'm assuming at this point since I have access to the pulley and belt I can spin everything by hand, including the speed dial?

[JPG]

For now address just the pulleys/motor. Speed dial can be addressed later(after the motor is running?).

Most of us remove both hubs -the idler hub(B)(short one) to remove the belt cover.(the vent cover hole is small) The longer hub belongs on (A) with the smaller end facing the headstock.

[EastWoodTurner]

apart.jpg (55.14 KiB) Viewed 2438 times

Well... one thing led to another and the rabbit hole of youtube and this forum now has the headstock apart. Lots of sawdust and grime to clean tomorrow. Most the bearings spin freely though not efficiently. Teeth on all gears look intact though packed with sawdust. The drive and ring or the quill housing... longer cylindrical white plastic piece with teeth on it... was broke in half. It could have happened during removal, but I didn't find any of the pieces that broke off around the garage so I'm guessing it was a previous mishap... it still mates up with the other portion, but not enough to seem reliable.

[DLB]

The Drive and Ring on an older Mark frequently shows more wear. I think this is a natural byproduct of the single bearing quills. It is not an expensive part.

Does the motor run disconnected from the rest of the headstock as you have it now? Caution - Don't try this for more than a few seconds at a time if it is not turning, because the motor wiring will be heating up fast. Note if it seems like it is trying and/or humming if it is not turning. Switch wiring looked correct and okay in your pic to me, but I don't know the color codes on your version. Also see if the motor shaft itself spins freely and quietly when you spin it by hand with no power (it should).

You should have a clear look at the motor label now. It would be good for us to know what brand it is. Some brands have problems with insulation decay when they age, knowing this might help with the decision of what steps to take next. A word of advice - yours is originally 1-1/8 HP. Some of the older ones are 3/4 HP. If you shop for a used motor, I suggest staying with 1-/8 HP. Ebay ads have been known to be misleading in this regard (works with all versions is only partially true).

- David

[john_001]

I wouldn't mess with the motor spring unless you really have to (e.g., one of the sheaves is cracked). As you may know by now, there is a lubricating hole hidden under the spring (it's near the motor end of the spring) which you can get to by spreading the coils with a screwdriver. That needs to be well-lubricated for the speed control to work. Use penetrating oil if the sheave is frozen to the shaft. Otherwise, good ol' 3 in 1 or similar.

[edma194]

Looks very clean for it's age. Check the wires at the motor. Use an ohmmeter to check the switch function. If you pick up the AC at the motor leads then you may want to check out this video - Electric Troubleshooting Shopsmith Mark V Motors. I use the first step in the video to check motors on used Shopsmiths. Disconnect the 2 wires from the motor and make sure neither one is shorted to the motor case. If it's internally shorted like that then I consider it junk.

You'll have to identify the motor better to find out how to check the capacitor an starter switch.

I get a good feeling looking at how clean that headstock is after more than 40 years. I don't want to jinx you, but maybe you shook that motor up enough when removing the motor pan that it will spin up as soon as you apply power.

[EastWoodTurner]

The Drive and Ring on an older Mark frequently shows more wear. I think this is a natural byproduct of the single bearing quills. It is not an expensive part.

This is what was broken... from the diagrams I've seen I believe this to be the drive and ring? or is it something else?

File_000 (2).jpg (37.37 KiB) Viewed 2400 times

Does the motor run disconnected from the rest of the headstock as you have it now? Caution - Don't try this for more than a few seconds at a time if it is not turning, because the motor wiring will be heating up fast. Note if it seems like it is trying and/or humming if it is not turning. Switch wiring looked correct and okay in your pic to me, but I don't know the color codes on your version. Also see if the motor shaft itself spins freely and quietly when you spin it by hand with no power (it should).

Motor does not run when disconnected. No turning, noise, humming, nothing... had to reset the outlet breaker though. Motor shaft and pulley both spin freely by hand.

You should have a clear look at the motor label now. It would be good for us to know what brand it is.

File_001.jpg (40.34 KiB) Viewed 2400 times

[DLB]

Yep, that is the Drive and Ring that is broken. Should be readily available new from SS. Usually can be found used on eBay, sometimes only with the Upper Drive with bearings. Totally up to you on this, IIWM I'd check all the bearings while it is apart and replace any that are bad or questionable.

A short circuit or motor problem are your likely causes. Motor start problems are somewhat common in SS Headstocks because there is a mechanical switch exposed to the elements and most of the cooling air that goes through the headstock goes through the motor. That air frequently contains a lot of sawdust which gets deposited everywhere, as you have observed. I don't know this particular motor, but those start contacts are usually near the end opposite the drive shaft and can sometimes be seen through the vent holes. First try just tapping the outside of the motor case to try to dislodge any buildup that might be in those contacts. Compressed air would be my second choice, not endorsed by everyone here because it sometimes moves sawdust into the contacts rather than out, so don't try that until you've tried tapping. This isn't the only possible start circuit or motor problem, but is not uncommon on SS headstocks so it is the best place to start. Remember not to apply power for long, if there is a start problem then the run windings are getting hot and this can lead to worse news.

If your circuit breaker is tripping almost instantly when you turn it on that is more likely a short circuit, either in the motor or external wiring. If it takes a few seconds to trip that is more consistent with the start circuit.

I don't think you are ready for this yet, but very good used motors go for under $200 on eBay. You might also look locally and avoid the shipping. And some people here might have one, so let folks know where you are if you get to that point.

- David