Upgrading a Model V 500

[nduanetesh]

Hi all. My father very generously bought me a used Shopsmith shortly after Covid hit, in anticipation of my wife and I moving and me having a workshop. The pandemic delayed our move and slowed everything down, but I'm finally--two years later--about ready to take possession. I'd never heard of a Shopsmith before, but I've had a lot of time to do research. What he got turns out to be an old Mark 5, model 500 (small cast iron work table). It appears to be in good shape and came with a lot of accessories, including a band saw, which I'm very excited about.

I see on the Shopsmith site that there is a Model 500 to 520 Pro Fence & Table System Upgrade kit, and I'm very tempted to get it. The improved tables seem like a big upgrade, and I like the idea of the table saw blade guards (both for safety and dust collection). I'm interested in others' opinions on whether this kit is worth the money.

Also, if I upgrade my old 500 to a 520 with this kit, do I, for all intents and purposes, have a model 520? Am I likely to run into any compatibility issues afterward (like, some accessory won't fit or gives me trouble because I've got a model 500 with model 520 tables)? Any pitfalls I need to look out for?

Thanks!

[edma194]

If you are starting with an old enough 'Greenie' model from the 1950s, so called because of the green painted parts then you only have a 3/4HP motor instead of 1-1/8HP. If your machine is old enough you may have a single bearing quill instead of the preferred double bearing quill. Your lathe tool rest and tailstock might be slightly different on yours, there may be other minor differences. But you won't have any compatibility problems I know of. All of the Shopsmith Model 5XX machines have very standard parts that interchange among all of them.

[DLB]

Welcome to the forum and world of Shopsmith. The 520 represents a huge upgrade over the 500. But how useful that is depends a lot on how you use the machine. If you have a saw guard, I'd recommend using the machine some before you pay for the upgrade. You'll develop a much better idea of whether the upgrade is worth the cost to you. To me the difference is night and day. When I had only a pre-500 I thought that a stand-alone table saw was the future for me, using the Mark for its other capabilities. But I ended up picking up a used 520 and have found that it meets my table saw expectations. I'm not saying it is the equal to a cabinet saw, but as a portable and the way I use a table saw it is my preference.

An upgrade is, for all practical intents and purposes, a 520. There are no pitfalls that I can think of, but a few accessories aren't compatible. Model 500 saw arbors won't be compatible with the 510/520 saw guard. The upgrade kit comes with one 1-1/4" saw arbor. So if you want to use 'standard' 5/8" arbor blades or if you keep more than one blade mounted in an arbor you'll need to buy compatible arbors. One of the features of the 510/520 is the sanding disc can be used in the lower saw guard for better dust collection, for that to work it needs to be the new style sanding disc. IIRC one disc comes with the upgrade kit. Old sanding discs can be used, just not in the saw guard. If you have the 500 shaper (etc.) fence it won't be compatible with the new main table. There may be more, but these are the most common compatibility things that I can think of. They are relatively trivial in light of the advantages of the 520.

- David

[chapmanruss]

nduanetesh,

Ed and David have explained some of the differences. I may be helpful to identify when your Mark 5 was made. You described it as

an old Mark 5, model 500 (small cast iron work table)

Mark 5's and Mark V's used the same basic table system until the introduction of the 510/505 larger Table System in 1985. At that time the original Table System Mark V became the Mark V 500. Since you called your Shopsmith a Mark 5 I am guessing that is what you read on the Vent/Serial Number plate on the Belt Cover. They were called Mark 5 until the beginning of 1980 when Mark V began being used on the plate. Same tool just a change to the Roman Numeral. When introduced in 1954 the Mark 5 was painted in a green/silver color scheme. That changed to gold/copper in the early 1960's followed by the gray color in the mid 1960's. The color and serial number would tell us when your Shopsmith was made. If you would post your serial number, we can help identify it better for you. Shopsmith Mark 5's made beginning in1973 have an SS prefix. The Logo/Serial Number Plate also includes which company made the Mark 5.

Upgrading yours would essentially make it a Mark V 520. My Mark 7 is an upgraded Mark V 520 with all the changes a Mark 7 has over the Mark V 520. For the Mark V it is the Table/Fence System it has that decides which Model it is.

I am also puzzled by you saying it has a small "cast iron" worktable. Yes, the tables of the original Mark 5 aka Mark V 500 are smaller but with a very small exception the tables are cast aluminum. I have seen only 1 cast iron extension table for the Mark 5 and no cast iron main tables.

As already suggested, you could begin using your Mark 5 to see how you like it with the original tables. Using it as a table saw will have the biggest difference when upgrading it to the 520 Pro Fence larger Table System. The Lathe function will be almost the same. The table upgrade includes a longer arm and the correct post for the Lathe Tool Rest. It will still use the same Tailstock, Lathe Drive and tailstock center.

Something to do before you begin using it would be lubrication and maintenance.

One consideration before you buy the 520 Table Upgrade is to look for a used Mark V 520 for sale which may be less expensive than upgrading yours. This could be especially true if you have one with the 3/4 HP motor originally found in all greenies. All 505/510 & 520 came with the double bearing quill which started in 1984. A bit of a plus there. A Mark V 520 that is original and was not upgraded would have the "C" headstock with the red safety key switch. Another option would be to buy a Mark V 510 and upgrade to the Pro Fence of the 520 if desired.

[nduanetesh]

Thanks very much for all of the thorough answers, everyone. I appreciate the input and information. It's entirely possible I have many of the details wrong in my original post. I had no idea that Mark 5 and a Mark V aren't interchangeable terms, and I thought all of the small work tables were cast iron. I haven't actually seen the machine since...Easter of 2021? and don't have the serial number handy. To complicate matters even further, I've just managed to break my ankle and can't go get the machine or even travel to look at it for a while. When I did look at the info plate, my recollection is that I was surprised by how old the machine is.

My primary uses for the machine will be band sawing and drill press, though I will also need the table saw and jointer from time to time and will definitely be dabbling with the lathe. (I'm an amateur builder of electric guitars, primarily.)

The idea of looking for a used 520 is an interesting one. Honestly, I'd been thinking about just selling this one and buying a new Mark VII, but 1) I think this one might be tough to sell, and 2) my wife isn't keen on me spending $5K for a Mark VII. I could definitely use the router and shaper functions though. A used Mark VII would be much more cost efficient, but those don't seem to show up for sale as often as Mark Vs.

I'll see if I can get my father to send me a photo of the info plate, so I can share the serial number. It will be great to know exactly what I have. Thanks again, everyone.

[chapmanruss]

nduanetesh,

Sorry to hear about your ankle.

I hope I didn't mislead you about the use of Mark 5 and Mark V. It is the same tool but as I said the change to the Roman Numeral occurred in the beginning of 1980. Mark V was used before that in advertising and other printed material. Shopsmith Inc. decided to make that change. I get a bit picky sometimes on the use of 5 or V just to help identify when a tool was made.

Now to get a bit pickier, the current Mark 7 is 7 so as not to be confused with the Mark VII from the 1960's. You may see, from time to time a Mark VII from the 1960's for sale and it may be listed as Mark 7. That adds to the confusion and the Mark VII from the 1960's has not only Mark VII on the tool but Mark 7 also. Here you will generally see them referred to as Mark VII. The Mark VII from the 1960's was a completely different tool from the Mark 5. It has the same 7 functions with a double tilt frame as the current Mark 7 but the speed range of a Mark 5. The current Mark 7 has the DVR motor with a wider speed range and was built off the Mark V frame so any Mark 5/V can be upgraded to a Mark 7. Below is a picture of a Mark VII from the 1960's for your reference.

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MARK-VII_SS Inc.jpg (10.62 KiB) Viewed 3734 times

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There were less than 11,000 Mark VII's made in the 1960's before they were discontinued in 1968. By that time there had been more than 10 times that many Mark 5's made.

When you are able, get back to us and we can help with whatever information you need. In the meantime, if you want to know more about the Mark 5/V I did a thread called Shopsmith Mark 5 What When and Where under the Community section and can be found at the link below.

viewtopic.php?t=24963

I can sympathize a bit with what you are going through since my wife broke her ankle just over 2 years ago. It was hard for her to get around, but she got a knee scooter which helped a lot and avoided having to use just crutches. When she was getting around on the knee scooter it was hard for me to keep up with her at times.

[john_001]

The main advantage of the 520 over the 500 is in the table saw function. The 500 already has a table that's bigger than the one on most drill presses, and the band saw has its own table. DLB's suggestion to use it for a while is a good one. See how much you use the table saw to decide whether the upgrade is worth it to you.

[edma194]

The 510 and 520 table systems provide much more table area and a lot of configuration options. The tables also have T-tracks instead of simple slots. These functions are just as useful for horizontal boring and the disk sander as the table saw, but in all cases it is an expensive upgrade tough to justify if you aren't going to use those features. If you do plan some larger projects then you are likely to enjoy the improvements.

If you do go ahead with this upgrade you can save some money by buying it from Lowes. It's priced a little lower and delivery will be free.

Very sorry to hear about your ankle injury, I lost a lot of time and opportunities to leg injuries, hope you are back up an around soon.

[JPG]

A pix of the vent plate will also reveal the motor hp(3/4 or 1 1/8).

[nduanetesh]

Thanks for the well wishes everyone, and the additional info. I'm delighted to find this is such a helpful forum.

My father wrote today to say he couldn't find a serial number on the Shopsmith anywhere, but he sent me two pics. I responded with the info from the Shopsmith website about where to find the serial number, and hopefully he'll give it another go. I'm going to attach the two pics he sent; I don't know if they'll be useful for identification or not.

You've all given me some great info, and lots to think about. At this point I need to know for sure what I've got to know what I'd like to get, if that makes sense. (And I very likely will spend some time with the machine before making any major upgrade purchases.)

One more quick question: dust control is important to me, because my shop is fairly small and I have to do dirty jobs (sawing and sanding) in the same place I do fine finish work. I've been under the assumption that I'll have better dust control with the table saw and disc sander with the newer lower saw guard. Is that accurate? My dust collector is a Ridgid shop vac with a cyclonic separator, btw.

Thanks again for all the help. Are these photos at all helpful?