Shaper rubbing collars

[wurlitzerwilly]

I've had the Shopsmith shaper for quite a while and I only just got round to wanting to use it, as most smaller stuff I've done on the router table.

I'm about to finally fit the double tilt kit, which will make it easy to do under table shaping, using the PowerPro.

I've watched a couple of videos on setting up and I'm a little confused as there has been contradictory commenting.

One of the original Nick Engler videos mentions the use of two different sized arbors. I only have one, but all my cutters fit, so it shouldn't matter.
Nick also mentions the rubbing collars, which he doesn't seem to use when using the shaper fence and I have no issue with that, but when he does freehand shaping, he does use the collars (obviously) but instead of a static rubbing collar, he mentions ball bearings, which to me indicates a ball-race like those fitted to some router cutters, so that the wood doesn't get burned with friction. However, I never saw Nick use ball bearings on the arbor, only the plain rubbing collars.

I also watched Doug Reid using the PowerPro and there was a brief clip which showed a ball-race fitted, but when he actually used the arbor with cutters installed, there was no sign of any bearing race, only the older original rubbing collars.

As I only have the original rubbing collars, does the hive mind think that they will work without damaging the workpiece, or as I'll be using around 10,000RPM speed, should I try to source some suitable sized bearings?

[edma194]

Which arbor do you have. Here is the Shaper Spindle with Ball Bearing rub collars: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... pindle.htm

Does that look like what you have? don't know if they sell those parts separately. I can't tell if that's the same arbor provided in the regular Shaping Package: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... ackage.htm

I'm interested in this because I have the shaper bits, but don't know yet if I have any proper arbor for them.

[edma194]

Ok, here's the Shaper Spindle Arbor Set - Ball Bea(ring): https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/ite ... tem=555472

This manual implies the shaper bits are rated for 12,000 RPM but I don't know if it takes into consideration using them at higher speeds on the PowerPro: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manuals/845650.pdf

Does the PowerPro chart have a setting for the Shaper?

[DLB]

Most shaping I've done was on the fence, but I've used the rub collars a few times. It has been a long time. They do burn. I recall doing a lot of sanding afterward. Bearings would be an improvement for sure. You could try a test piece or two in whatever wood type you are using to see how objectionable the burning is for you. Technique is important with the rub collars, I envision the bearings being much more forgiving.

The arbors in the kits are different, I've never used and don't own the bearing arbor. I would prefer 1/2" bore bearings and I'm assuming that is not what is in the SS kit or they would fit on the standard arbor.(?)

- David

[wurlitzerwilly]

Which arbor do you have. Here is the Shaper Spindle with Ball Bearing rub collars: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... pindle.htm

Does that look like what you have? don't know if they sell those parts separately. I can't tell if that's the same arbor provided in the regular Shaping Package: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... ackage.htm

I'm interested in this because I have the shaper bits, but don't know yet if I have any proper arbor for them.

Thanks Ed. I guess I should have done a search of the Shopsmith site first.
I think I have it right in my head now. I have the original non-bearing arbor with solid rubbing collars.
Your link to the ball bearing collars seems to be an upgrade from the original shaper arbor set and is the one that I ultimately need for the PowerPro/Mk7. They do explain about the possibility of burning with the solid collars, so maybe the bearings were also available for use with the old headstock and a speed increaser (which I once had). The newer set isn't overly expensive, even with the router chuck (which I don't have) so I'll get onto my UK supplier and see if he has a set. I just need to check that all cutters fit both arbors.

As to the speed, the manual for my original set says max of 10,000RPM, but that could be that's the max speed the older speed increaser could achieve.
I don't see any issue with using 12,000RPM for the cutters. They're likely to be of the same material as router cutters that can run at 20,000 - 30,000RPM without issues. The main issue would be burning. I guess that 12,000RPM would give a slightly smoother cut.

[wurlitzerwilly]

Most shaping I've done was on the fence, but I've used the rub collars a few times. It has been a long time. They do burn. I recall doing a lot of sanding afterward. Bearings would be an improvement for sure. You could try a test piece or two in whatever wood type you are using to see how objectionable the burning is for you. Technique is important with the rub collars, I envision the bearings being much more forgiving.

The arbors in the kits are different, I've never used and don't own the bearing arbor. I would prefer 1/2" bore bearings and I'm assuming that is not what is in the SS kit or they would fit on the standard arbor.(?)

- David

Hi David. Fortunately my immediate requirement can be met using the fence, so I don't need to bust a gut over it, but I will try to obtain a bearing set and arbor for versatility. I must admit that on my Incra router table, I mostly use the fence, even when the cutter has a bearing. The bearings do add some confidence that if you do mess up, the workpiece won't get damaged because it can't go past the set limit. I also find the bearings extremely useful for setting up the fence with a straight edge, although rubbing collars would also do that as there's no rotation.

I'm sure bearings are the best way to go. Even at 20,000RPM and over-forcing the workpiece, I've never had a burn.

[wurlitzerwilly]

Does the PowerPro chart have a setting for the Shaper?

I'm not sure - I'm going into the shop shortly and I'll check.

[chapmanruss]

The Power Pro does have the Shaper speeds as either 9500 or 10,000 RPM's depending on the material.

As for the Shaper Spindles Ed gave some links but here is some of what I know about them. Recently there have been 3 Shaper Spindles available. Two were designed for use with the Speed Increaser and need an adapter to use directly on the Headstock's spindle. One has the standard Rub Collars (P/N 555463) and the other has the ball bearing Rub Collars (P/N 555472). The Shaper Spindle with the ball bearing Rub Collars has a smaller diameter threaded shaft at 3/8" instead of the standard 1/2" so it uses sleeves for the difference. The other current Shaper Spindle (P/N 555117) goes directly on the Headstock spindle and is the old 1/2" Universal Arbor (P/N 505505) with the Rub Collar set instead of the two machined washers and spacer. All three of these Shaper Spindles are shown in the picture below along with the two early ones dating back to the Shopsmith Model 10E.

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Spindles Labeled.jpg (89.62 KiB) Viewed 1164 times

[DLB]

Amana tools and Magnate (via Amazon) both offer a few 1/2" bore bearings. Whiteside seemed to have a wider selection. These look like possible sources once you know your target OD.

- David

[edma194]

Amana tools and Magnate (via Amazon) both offer a few 1/2" bore bearings. Whiteside seemed to have a wider selection. These look like possible sources once you know your target OD.

- David

Have to go through all the smaller pieces from a box o' parts I acquired to see if there's a real shaper arbor in there. But I already have a 1/2" universal arbor so don't think I'll need another one with 1/2" bore bearings being easy to find. I do have 1/2" chucks but the universal arbor mounts right on the spindle and I feel like it will be stronger too.