Small Pieces - Kickback

[dino9832]

I'm a new owner of a Mark V Shopsmith. Having never used a table saw before, the first thing I did was try cutting some small pieces of wood.

Small pieces like cutting a 1/2 inch of the end of a 2X4. Or slicing a half inch from a 2.5" dia. Mesquite limb. Sort of like a coaster for drinks.
Once cut, the 1/2" pieces tend to stay under the guard. Vibration causes them to move about, and occasionally contact the saw blade.

Am I asking too much ( or little ) as the case may be? Removing the guard would probably help, but I'm a bit reluctant to do so until doing more research.

Thanks.

[JPG]

I would remove the upper guard when making small cutoffs.

A cutoff trapped in the guard is a recipe for misguided flying objects.

[roy_okc]

Dino,

One addendum to JPG's suggestion. If you do remove the upper guard, make sure you use a riving knife in place of the guard to help reduce the likelihood of a kickback. While you probably wouldn't experience kickback in your scenarios above without a riving knife due to the small size, it would be a good habit to get into using one or the other in all cutting situations.

If your V didn't come with one, you can get one from Shopsmith, https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... _knife.htm

Not knowing what you may have researched, here's a link to a decent table saw safety discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSbS5zhH7cE

[dino9832]

Thanks. I've put the ribbing knife on my list of parts to get in the future. Over lunch I'll be watching the video.

I was working from the right hand side of the saw. The mesquite round got caught under the guard and started bouncing around. Of course, the power switch was on the left! Before I could duck down and make my way to the switch the round caught the blade and flew into the garage wall.

[RFGuy]

I'm a new owner of a Mark V Shopsmith. Having never used a table saw before, the first thing I did was try cutting some small pieces of wood.

Small pieces like cutting a 1/2 inch of the end of a 2X4. Or slicing a half inch from a 2.5" dia. Mesquite limb. Sort of like a coaster for drinks.
Once cut, the 1/2" pieces tend to stay under the guard. Vibration causes them to move about, and occasionally contact the saw blade.

Am I asking too much ( or little ) as the case may be? Removing the guard would probably help, but I'm a bit reluctant to do so until doing more research.

Thanks.

First, I have to ask how are you making these cuts? I don't recommend making small crosscut pieces with the fence as the cutoffs can bind between the fence and the sawblade. IMHO this is just asking for a kickback. Are you using the miter gauge to make these cuts and/or do you have a crosscut sled that you are using? From your post it sounds like you are talking only about crosscuts, but for rip cuts I highly recommend the addition of Jessem's Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides. You can find more details at the thread linked below, but I highly recommend these aftermarket guides. Of course, it is imperative that your fence be properly aligned, e.g. either perfectly parallel to the sawblade or slightly wider opening at the rear of the sawblade than at the front. What you don't EVER want is a smaller opening between the fence and the sawblade at the rear than at the front because it creates a choke point that squeezes the board into the blade thus creating a kickback. Check out the links below and the video for more information.

viewtopic.php?p=255807#p255807

viewtopic.php?p=297185#p297185

[chapmanruss]

dino9832,

You have received some good recommendations already. As others have pointed out, there isn't a good way to control the cuts you described. There are definite ways of making those cuts to avoid. Having that 1/2" piece between the blade and the fence is as recipe for a kick back and/or other problems on a Table Saw.

I do have one question for you. Which model Mark V do you have? This is important since you have added Roy's suggestion of a Riving Knife to your shopping list. The Riving Knife does not fit the Mark V with the original table system otherwise known as the Mark V 500 as noted on the catalog page. I would hate to see you buy something you could not use. It will fit the Mark V 505, 510, 520 and 520S. It will also fit the Mark 7 and Mark 4. Besides the Mark V 500 it will not fit the Mark 5 (the original name), Mark 2 or Mark VII (from the 1960's). As you can see there are and have been a number of Mark Series tools. For the Mark V it is the Table/Carriage/Fence system used that makes the difference between the Models. If you do not know which model you have the pictures below may help you identify yours.

Below is a Mark V 500. The Fence attaches to the Table by an "L" shaped bracket on the table front and clamps over the back edge.

_

Mark V Model 500 i.jpg (11.94 KiB) Viewed 11862 times

.
Below is a Mark V 505. The Fence attaches to the Table with tubes front and back.

_

Mark V Model 505 50th Anniversary.jpg (17.73 KiB) Viewed 11862 times

.
Note that the Mark V 505 above is the same Table/Fence system as the Mark V 510 below except the 505 does not have the Floating Tables, Connector Tubes or Adjustable Legs.

_

Mark V Model 510.jpg (12.65 KiB) Viewed 11862 times

.
Below is a Mark V 520. The Fence attaches to the Table by extruded aluminum rails front and back and has a wider Fence. This is also known as the Pro Fence System.

_

Mark V Model 520.jpg (12.21 KiB) Viewed 11862 times

.
It is the Table system that determines which model you have even if it started out as a different model. For example, if your Mark V says it is a Model 500 but a previous owner upgraded it to the Model 510 Table/Fence system it is now a 510 and accessories should be purchased for that model when there is a difference.

[dino9832]

The Shopsmith is probably a Mark V 510 variant. It has tubes for mounting the fence. It has two extension tables, but did not come with the four 27" rods that would link tables. The S/N indicates 1996.

I was not using the fence. I have a sliding miter with handle ( https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... rgauge.htm ) and the workpiece was not the piece that kicked back. It was the piece being cut off that was about 1/2".

The 1/2" piece became trapped between the weight of the guard and the table. But, that didn't stop the piece from vibrating around until it hit the blade.

[edma194]

I've had that happen. There's no easy way to prevent it if the blade guard is down. Yours should be able to flip up so little piece don't get stuck under the guard. I don't do that for very many cuts though because the riving knife could get bent accidentally or from vibration and the off center weight of the blade guard. So if you do it frequently the separate riving knife will be worthwhile.

I am assuming this matters to you because you want to make additional cuts without stopping and restarting the saw in between each cut.

I don't recommend making small crosscut pieces with the fence as the cutoffs can bind between the fence and the sawblade.

Right. You can still use the fence as a stop to position the piece in the miter guard by putting a removable spacer between the piece and the fence.

[SteveMaryland]

This post is kinda scary because it reminds me of ME 30 years ago. So I will try to avoid sounding like a Nervous Nellie, but...

Dino please get some training! No joke. There are many things you will need to learn about using a Shopsmith without injuring yourself. And a Shopsmith WILL injure you, badly, AND faster than you can blink, if you do something stupid. I know what I'm talking about.

In no particular order:

I also had low experience with power woodworking tools when I got my Shopsmith over 30 years ago. I have had numerous close calls and had to go to the emergency room twice - and I was very lucky. I learned and am still learning.

You will mess up a lot of wood. That is how you MUST learn the behavior and limitations of your machine.

Get all of the Shopsmith safety devices - push stick, push block, feather board, riving knife.

ALWAYS wear eye protection - which means full coverage safety goggles. Goggles also keeps sawdust out of eyes.

If you get distracted by sawdust in the eyes (or any other distraction) while running the machine, first STOP then TURN OFF THE MACHINE!

If your Shopsmith is operated indoors, sawdust buildup WILL BE a safety hazard unless managed by a vacuum system. Get a vac system before proceeding.

Elbow room indoors is also an issue. Verify that you have enough room to SAFELY run the workpiece ALL the way through the cut.

Obtain, read and follow the written Shopsmith Self Study Course!

Set your Shopsmith up exactly how the Study Guide says! Don't try any cut or setup that is not in the Study Guide. You MUST first learn the limitations of your machine before you do small pieces or complex cuts. Remember, SMALL PIECES ARE BIG HAZARDS!

For many cuts, a BANDSAW is much SAFER and CONTROLLABLE cutting tool than a circular saw. Invest in a Shopsmith bandsaw and use the table saw only when necessary.

BEFORE you start cutting anything, PLAN and THINK THROUGH every detail of your cut.

If a wood piece gets hung up near the blade, NEVER reach for it, STOP then turn the machine OFF and UNPLUG it!

When a piece gets cut off, NEVER reach for it. PUSH IT off the table with a stick. Let it fall to the floor or into a bucket. NEVER reach for it.

NEVER wear gloves while using woodworking tools - they can snag on rotating components and PULL YOUR HAND(S) INTO THE BLADE!

Keep your hands AWAY from the danger zone - which is anywhere near the spinning blade!

Keep your head and body OUTSIDE the plane of the spinning blade!

DO NOT ever push your hand(s) TOWARD the blade or reach toward the blade!

When sawing, always be ready to LET GO of the work and PULL your hands AWAY from the work and turn the machine OFF! RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO grab or otherwise rescue a wood piece that has gotten stuck - always be ready to turn the machine OFF and step back! Your ruined project is not worth your fingers/hands!

As a new user, do not try to cut small or thin or short pieces! Such small items are only handled using special jigs and holding devices - which you don't have at this time.

Also watch lots of Youtube videos! Especially watch the Doug Reid videos, he knows what he is doing. Observe his setup technique and how the Shopsmith safety components are used.

What have I missed?...

[dino9832]

...I am assuming this matters to you because you want to make additional cuts without stopping and restarting the saw in between each cut...

It happened with the first cut. Until I get more experienced, I'll use the band saw for the small stuff.

Wow! I've gotten some really great advice, and I truly appreciate it.

...Set your Shopsmith up exactly how the Study Guide says! Don't try any cut or setup that is not in the Study Guide. You MUST first learn the limitations of your machine before you do small pieces or complex cuts. Remember, SMALL PIECES ARE BIG HAZARDS!...

Steve,
Excellent post!!! Your post about covers it all and is a real inspiration to slow down a bit. I had JUST received my saw blade in the mail. Got a bit excited and ran some really crappy board through. Of all things, trying to set the very end to a 90 degree angle by shaving a bit off.

Before that I was trying to push a 3" length of mesquite through the band saw with a board. Circumference PARALLEL to the blade. Sure enough, it got spinning and took off! I still haven't found it.

The final straw was trying to cut the 1/2" piece off the mesquite. I wish I'd gotten to the switch earlier, but it wasn't worth getting in front of a potential kickback that DID become a kickback. That prompted my post.

My plan is to slow down a bit. Two close calls in two days should tell me something.
Thanks to everyone for the great advice.