Crafter's Station - Request Wiring Advice

[DLB]

A question in my mind is the orange wire and internal motor wiring relative to it. It may be a gotcha! Also is there a third terminal on the motor connection board which MAY BE the wire from the start switch. I do not recall one on any of my powerstations. In order for the red/black wire swap to work, the start switch MUST be in series with the start winding

I was wondering the same thing. My PS, a 1989, has another terminal on the motor connection board compared to those in Dusty's pictures earlier in this thread. There is no obvious way to tell just by looking at it which of the start terminal(s) are switched by the start switch. But if Chad's motor matches Dusty's pictures that shouldn't be a problem for him. Presumably the terminal with the orange wire is switched.

- David

[dusty]

As promised"

CRAFTERS STATION WIRING.jpg

The relay pinout is shown upside down to match the ss manual orientation.

Some confusion is attributable to Dusty numbering the terminals differently.

I believe this matches all previous other pix etc. posted except Dusty's diagram/schematic(only swapped relay pole terrminal #).

Please: some detail. How have I numbered the terminals differently? Which terminal numbers are not in concert?

[Chad]

Chad:

If you understand those wiring for dummies diagrams thee definitely do not qualify as a dummy!

If it would help, I can show paths for the two different situations.

Quesion? Just WHAT are you doing? Are you including the two power switches. If not, the relay function is redundant.

A question in my mind is the orange wire and internal motor wiring relative to it. It may be a gotcha! Also is there a third terminal on the motor connection board which MAY BE the wire from the start switch. I do not recall one on any of my powerstations. In order for the red/black wire swap to work, the start switch MUST be in series with the start winding

JPG,

I do understand those "WIRING FOR DUMMIES" diagrams, after all, I should. I made them.

No offence to you or dusty; your diagram is beautify drawn and laid out by the way, but I do not know how to read them. I have no electrical experience, aside from basic house hold wiring, and some automotive. So, I had to draw my own to clarify that I was reading Shopsmith's original diagram. Adding colored wires and terminals, and showing the pathways for energized wires help a simple minded machinist, like myself.

So what am I doing all of this modification for anyway? Well, just to clarify, I am not going for a full on "Crafter's Station modification". I will not be adding any sort of carriage to be used with the main table.

The only reason I am attempting to have a Power Station with a bi-directional motor is to be used with the Strip Sander, and the chisel sharpening attachment, (which must have the sanding belt moving in the "up hill" direction).

My goal is to be able to have a turning project setup on my Mark V, and also be able to sharpen a chisel, without disrupting my setup on the lathe.
Even if I had a PowerPro (which I do not), I would still have to move the headstock to use the strip sander on the left side of the machine. Which would still disrupt my turning project setup (with or without the use of the tailstock).

[JPG]

So what you really need is a dpdt direction switch in addition to the min power on/off.

That is the same function as the relay in the crafter's station wiring.

A switch is much simpler than the relay dual power switch setup on the crafter's station.

IF AIUI the motor that has a "reverse red/black wires" label makes it simpler.

From Dusty's pix it appears he does NOT have the third terminal and has additional wires coming out of the motor red/orange/blue(those that appear to have 'wire nut' connections).

The unanswered question has to do with the third terminal and what is behind it internally.

Let me know what the teminal board on YOUR motor looks like.

[Chad]

A question in my mind is the orange wire and internal motor wiring relative to it. It may be a gotcha! Also is there a third terminal on the motor connection board which MAY BE the wire from the start switch. I do not recall one on any of my powerstations. In order for the red/black wire swap to work, the start switch MUST be in series with the start winding

I was wondering the same thing. My PS, a 1989, has another terminal on the motor connection board compared to those in Dusty's pictures earlier in this thread. There is no obvious way to tell just by looking at it which of the start terminal(s) are switched by the start switch. But if Chad's motor matches Dusty's pictures that shouldn't be a problem for him. Presumably the terminal with the orange wire is switched.

- David

David & JPG,

You got it!

I told myself before I started this modification of my Power Station: "don't screw-up" And guess what? I had a screw up. A first class, bona fide, made in America screw-up!

After some careful troubleshooting this evening I determined the purchased relay, my wiring diagrams, and my wiring layout and assembly all checked out good. What DID NOT check out good was the motor. I narrowed down and isolated the problem at the motor. It had to be my connections at the motor. Instead of paying attention the how my motor was originally wired from Shopsmith, and actually reading the label on the motor. I made the stupid mistake of wiring my motor exactly as dusty had his wired. Just wire it like the picture of dusty's motor, and it should work, right? WRONG! Not knowing the terminals T4 & B are reversed on the Emerson motor I have, comparied to dusty's motor.

I switched the white and orange wires at the motor, and the damn thing worked again, as it had originally, and as it should! So far I have not found any apparent damage to the motor, or any of the other components, which is a blessing, and plain darn luck.

I have some tiding up to do with the wiring, and a few connections, but it works!

Thank you very much to all who chimed in with your guidance, patience, suggestions, and time.

[JPG]

As promised"

CRAFTERS STATION WIRING.jpg

The relay pinout is shown upside down to match the ss manual orientation.

Some confusion is attributable to Dusty numbering the terminals differently.

I believe this matches all previous other pix etc. posted except Dusty's diagram/schematic(only swapped relay pole terrminal #).

Please: some detail. How have I numbered the terminals differently? Which terminal numbers are not in concert?

The difference is simple and quite understandable. The two poles on the relay are reversed terminal id wise. I preferred to use the terminal identification from the relay catalog diagram. For whatever reason on your drawings the connections are to the same physical terminals on the relay, but, you identified them as the terminal designation for the other pole
Thus you interchanged terminals ids 1/3, 4/6, 7,9. I further verified the terminals/wiring from the ss manual diagram(assuming orientation was from looking at the terminals as shown in the catalog). It took a bit of second guessing, but I believe we have the same point to point physical wiring, but merely are labeling the relay terminal poles reversed.

[JPG]

I would appreciate a sketch of the terminals on your motor as well as any labeling regarding direction. I may be assuming the internal connections of the start switch. With Dusty's motor, it makes perfect sense, but I am concerned re the white wire termination to "t4" and "B" reversing. Question is is it working "correctly".

[Chad]

So what you really need is a dpdt direction switch in addition to the min power on/off.

That is the same function as the relay in the crafter's station wiring.

A switch is much simpler than the relay dual power switch setup on the crafter's station.

I agree! A dpdt direction switch is much simpler then the relay dual power switch setup of the Crafter's Station.

However, I like the removable keyed safety rocker switch. That is not a option in a dpdt directional switch that I'm aware of. So, I opted for the much more complicated Crafter's station setup for directional spindle rotation control. Plus, with the keyed safety rocker switches; I only use one key for the Power Station. If I want to change spindle directional rotation I must physically remove the safety key from one switch, and move it to the other switch. This will hopefully prevent me from turning on the wrong switch for a specific operation.

[Chad]

I would appreciate a sketch of the terminals on your motor as well as any labeling regarding direction. I may be assuming the internal connections of the start switch. With Dusty's motor, it makes perfect sense, but I am concerned re the white wire termination to "t4" and "B" reversing. Question is is it working "correctly".

It does work correctly now.

If I had a way of posting pictures of my own motor wiring connections, I would, but I don't.

Basically on my Emerson motor, terminal T1 is for the black wire for power to the motor, T4 is neutral, A & B are directional.

So, when I unknowing had the white neutral wire on the B terminal (which is a directional terminal), and the orange directional wire coming from the relay on the T4 terminal (neutral terminal). I was UNKNOWINGLY trying to run the motor without a neutral wire!

I am a idiot.

[JPG]

Bear with me please. I an trying to understand what is on your motor terminal board.

So IIUC you have 4 active terminals(T1,T4 ,A,B) T1 = black, T4 = white, A=?, B=? A=red or black? B= black or red? Connections to A,B determine rotation direction?

Never mind!!!

I looked at Chad's diagram and noticed the third motor terminal(orange wire). Then looked again at Dusty's motor wiring pix as well as the power station motor wiring pix. The third terminal goes to the start switch. I overlooked the 'detail' that there was no orange wire coming out of the motor and the cable orange wire was connected to that third terminal. The polarity of the black and white cable wires is irrelevant(will work either way).

Finally the use of only one safety key is good and serves the same purpose as the awkward manual power switch operation on the Mark VII.

All is now well!


P.S. Thou are not an idiot. I am the one who could not tell the difference between a wire nut splice and a slip on terminal!


P.P.S. I corrected the wiring diagram previously posted.