Head stock and carriage stock wedges Model 10E

[dust]

I am the proud owner of a 10E shop Smith serial number 228 made under licence by CC Engineering Industries Ltd in Australia.
I am relatively new to this forum.
Unfortunately I have misplaced one of the head stock tubular way wedges (part number 102-30A) and as the others are well worn I was hopeful of replacing all the wedges in the head and carriage stocks (102-30, 103-22A and 103-22).
Are these still available or should I have them made up?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Regards Peter

[chapmanruss]

Peter,

Your Shopsmith Model 10E S/N 228 being made in Australia should be more equivalent to a Model 10ER made in the US in the early 1950's. The Wedge Locks are no longer made but can be found used. The Shopsmith Model 10's were made over 70 years ago. The things to watch for pertaining to the Lock Wedges is, are they single Wedge Locks or are they the earlier Double Wedge Locks. The Quill Lock in the Headstock had a keyed Double Wedge Lock for a time. Check out online auction sites in the US that will ship to you if you are outside the US.

Below is a picture of the Single and Double Wedge Headstock and Carriage Way Tube Locks. The top and middle are the same lock but showing both sides of the wedge.

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Single and Double wedge locks.jpg (181.87 KiB) Viewed 2045 times

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There was a brass Double Wedge Lock version used in the very first Model 10E tools made. You can see the brass wedges below in the different versions of the Quill Locks. Also notice the difference in the bend of the handles between the Quill Locks and the Headstock and Carriage Locks.

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Quill Locks all versions.jpg (192.91 KiB) Viewed 2045 times

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I don't have an Owner's Guide or parts diagram and parts list for the Australian Model 10E. I have seen very few pictures and only enough to tell they are more of a US Model 10ER equivalent. My belief is that when they were licensed to CC Engineering Industries Ltd to make them in Australia Magna Engineering had left over Model 10E Logo/Serial Number Plates and sent them to CC Engineering to use.

I have no idea of how many Shopsmith Model 10E tools were made in Australia but there were around a 150,000 made in the US so parts are more easily found in the US.

You said all of the remaining wedges are well worn. The Double Wedge Lock in the first picture is a bit worn but still in usable condition. If not in too bad of condition they can be filed back into shape. All but the original brass wedges are an alloy and somewhat soft. Any replacement ones you get are used ones so look at the pictures accompanying the ad carefully. Check that the pictures are of the actual parts you are getting. Some sellers may have multiple sets of parts and only show pictures of one set. Usually the one in the best condition.

If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask, Pictures always help in identifying parts or describing pretty much anything.

[chapmanruss]

Peter,

I am posting this here to keep your information in one spot for reference.

In the topic Wedge Locks you said,

I have a 10E Serial No 228 made under Licence by CC Engineering Industries Ltd in Australia.
I have misplaced a headstock tubular way wedge and have similar problems described in the forum re jamming.
Are these available or do I have to have them made up.
They are the same as the second image in the forum, no keys.
Regards Peter

I responded with,

Peter,

You said,

They are the same as the second image in the forum, no keys.

Are you are referring to the picture in my earlier post in this thread with the picture of the different Quill Locks? If so, we can talk about the Double Wedge Locks if those are what you need. I would suggest starting by making sure the holes in the Headstock and Carriage are clean, smooth and waxed. Then try the individual wedges fitting into the Headstock and Carriage holes to determine which wedges need attention. Any not sliding freely into the holes can either be corrected or replaced. The wedges can be filed or sanded down carefully to adjust their fit in the holes if they are binding. You will still need to replace the missing wedge and any that cannot be made usable again.

Anyone with single Wedge Locks making them slide in the Headstock and Carriage lock holes is simpler. The wedge is not a full round one and the slit the handle goes into can widen and need to be closed up a bit for the wedge to fit smoothly into the hole.

For other reading this you should know the picture referenced in this post is a different one showing just the different Quill Locks as shown below. In my previous post in this thread the picture is of the Headstock and Carriage Way Tube Locks. It shows both sides of the single wedge and you can see the slot for the Handle to go through.

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Quill Locks all versions.jpg (192.91 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

[dust]

Hi Russ,
I am new to this forum and for some reason I can't see my last post, so I will resend as below.
I have a lot of questions and don't know how to send images on this forum, so if anyone can help, I would appreciate any directions.

1. I Have two lock levers with an approx 40 degree angle and one lock lever with approx 80 degree angle. All are threaded for 1 1/4" and are the same length and diameter. Is this correct and which goes where?

2. I assume the head stock and carriage stock outer wedges are unthreaded and the inner wedges are threaded? (My parts manual, I assume, shows the inner wedges are unthreaded, as there are nuts shown on both levers!)

3. Are the head stock lock lever, carriage lock and quill lock outer and inner wedges the same length? If not what are the dimensions?

4. I assume that the quill lock lever outer and inner wedges are unthreaded as there is a nut held on the far inside of the head stock?

5. As I need to have the wedges remade, all the dimensions are critical, I assume, especially the outer wedge length.

Many thanks Peter

[dust]

Hi again Russ,
I forgot to mention that my head and carriage stock levers are the same as your first and second images.

As I will have to have the wedges remade, what material would you suggest and what are the inner and outer dimensions for the wedges?

I have attached the link below to parts manual that I keep referring to.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/39391370252 ... QSEALw_wcB

Regards Peter

[chapmanruss]

Peter,

First off, I hope you didn't buy that manual from that ebay seller. They should not be able to profit off of someone else's work. It is a printed copy of the restored Model 10E Owner's Guide done by Everett Davis, a Forum member. It is available for free as a PDF linked to Everett's Google Drive from the topic Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations And More that can be found at the top of the Maintenance and Repair section.

Adding pictures to posts is done by clicking on the Attachments tab below the area you type when using the Full Editor & Preview as opposed to the Quick Reply box. There is a limit to the file size of attachments like pictures. I generally reduce my pictures, when needed, to 1000 x (smaller size) pixels.

Below are the questions from your previous post. I'll answer them one at a time. First, I want to make sure you have the Double Wedge Locks shown in the Owner's Guide you referenced and not the Single Wedge Locks. The difference between the Single and Double Wedge Locks are shown in the first picture in my first post here.

1. I Have two lock levers with an approx 40 degree angle and one lock lever with approx 80 degree angle. All are threaded for 1 1/4" and are the same length and diameter. Is this correct and which goes where?

I would have to check the thread size of the handles, but I believe 1/4" is correct. The Headstock and Carriage Way Tube Locks are the same. The Quill Lock in the Headstock has a different shaped handle to clear the Feed Lever Knob (102-7).

2. I assume the head stock and carriage stock outer wedges are unthreaded and the inner wedges are threaded? (My parts manual, I assume, shows the inner wedges are unthreaded, as there are nuts shown on both levers!)

The outer wedges are not threaded. the inner wedges use a nut imbedded in them except the early brass inner wedge is threaded.

3. Are the head stock lock lever, carriage lock and quill lock outer and inner wedges the same length? If not what are the dimensions?

The length of the wedges are pretty much the same for the inner wedges but the length is different for the outer wedges between the Headstock and Carriage Way Tube Locks and the Quill Lock. I would have to go out to the shop to measure them.

4. I assume that the quill lock lever outer and inner wedges are unthreaded as there is a nut held on the far inside of the head stock?

With the exception of the brass wedges the inner wedge on all three locks use a nut.

5. As I need to have the wedges remade, all the dimensions are critical, I assume, especially the outer wedge length.

The Wedge sizes would need to be the same as the originals.

[dust]

Hi Russ and thanks for your reply.
I will wait on your dimensions of the wedges.
As a matter of interest, I measured the distances from the head and carriage stock face, where the lock levers enter, to the closest point on the tubular way.
The distances were headstock approx 5/8", carriage approx 3/4" and to the quill approx 1".
Wouldn't these distances indicate that the outer wedges are of different lengths?
I have also attached an image of my three lock levers.
Regards Peter

[chapmanruss]

Your handles themselves appear to be for the Double Wedge Locks. The Quill Lock can have a larger angled bend but is further out the handle. See the picture below. The handles are a 1/4" with that thread size. The "washers" on yours are different than those I have seen on US made Model 10's. US made Model 10's have a plain washer with an inside diameter hole to fit on the 1/4" Handle shaft and an outside diameter slightly smaller than the wedges.

Here is where it may get tricky. There appears to be some differences between the US made Model 10's and the Australian made Model 10E. I can only give dimensions for US made Model 10's. The Australian Model 10E may be metric dimensions. I measured the Double Wedges and they are 7/8" in diameter. The rear wedge is 7/8" long for all three. The Headstock and Carriage front wedge are 1" long and the Quill front wedge is 1-3/8" long. The most important dimension is the wedge diameter to fit somewhat snug in the lock holes. The length of the wedges can vary slightly as long as their combined length does not exceed the Handles shaft and threaded end. If you are going to have wedges made, I would suggest making them out of brass like the original wedges. The rear wedges themselves can be threaded instead of imbedding a nut.

Below is the Lock Assemblies from my Model 10E and one of the original ones made from 1947. The wedges are brass. The top one is the Quill Lock. The Handles (levers as they are referred to in parts lists) changed somewhat over time. The ones below have more bend to the Headstock and Carriage locks Handles. The two of yours are the more common bend for the Headstock and Carriage locks Handles.

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Lever Assemblies 1077.jpg (280.47 KiB) Viewed 1899 times

[dust]

Thanks for the image.
Just measuring from it, the outer wedge lengths are different, which seems to agree with my 'bore to tubular way' measurements.
I think that this measurement is critical in the remake, as there needs to be pressure from the lever which engages the wedge against the tubular way or the quill. The length of the inner wedge is not so important. Do you agree?
Also, would you suggest a threaded inner wedge or unthreaded using nuts?
Regards Peter

[chapmanruss]

Peter,

The length measurements I gave are the overall length of the wedges and not subtracting for the bevel. Having the Headstock and Carriage Way Tube Locks outer wedge the same length would not be a functional problem for the 1/8" difference you measured but would only have them sitting that difference to the surface of the lock hole. The inner wedge length is not that critical as long as it is not too short or long.

For the wedges being made I still go with my previous suggestion.

If you are going to have wedges made, I would suggest making them out of brass like the original wedges. The rear wedges themselves can be threaded instead of imbedding a nut.

Something to note for anyone reading this topic, for the Double Wedge Locks, they apply pressure to both sides of the Way Tube or Quill. Single Wedge Locks only apply pressure to the one side of the Way Tube or Quill. Avoid overtightening the locks. Overtightening can deform the softer metal of the lock wedges.