Shopsmith 4" jointer to shelix head

[SShoarder87]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to say I'm going to be starting down the path to send in my spare 4" jointer cutterhead to shelix to see about getting our jointer added to the shelix list.

We already have the planer, so, I figured the jointer would be a welcome addition as well. I'll come back here with updates as they occur.

Before I do, I'd like some input. Is there a model/year run I should send in? I know shopsmith has changed things over the years, larger cutterhead, etc. I want to make sure they cover the most ubiquitous production run of the cutterhead, so the most people can benefit.

Step 1 will be reaching out via email, I'll be emailing them when I get some kind of consensus on which model cutterhead to use as our baseline.

[HopefulSSer]

I think all the cutter heads are interchangeable as assemblies?

[chapmanruss]

Shopsmith records have the Jointer changing to Larger Diameter Cutter Head in November 1990. From 1953 with the introduction of the Model 4E Jointer until 1990 there are lot of Jointers with the original Cutter Head Assembly. 1990 until now has a lot of Jointer with the Larger Diameter Cutter Head too. If they only want to convert one Jointer Cutter Head, they should design it for the Larger Diameter Cutter Head. All Jointers made prior to 1990 can use the Larger Diameter Cutter Head as a replacement. Because the original Cutter Head Assembly is no longer made it would be limited to used parts. Just my opinion.

[SShoarder87]

I've gotten a reply, and it's going to be too expensive.

"due to Byrd Tool policies, when a head is sent in, they impose a nonrefundable $70.00 fee.

They will also only undertake such a project once a Customer has received a ball park quote and placed an order."

So basically, looking at the delta "4 as the closest model to it they sell it would be in the neighborhood of $670 for me to get them what they need, and obtain one from them, and get it in the system. Plus my time to get measurements, send it in, postage etc.

You'd think me doing some of this would net me a credit, since I'm helping with R&D, and therefore, more revenue, but I guess not.

Sorry to those who were interested, but it's just not worth that much to me. I could buy a nice benchtop spiral jointer for that, or spend $180 more and actually get a jet 6" helical bench jointer.

[RFGuy]

I've gotten a reply, and it's going to be too expensive.

Thanks for taking this on and giving us the feedback. Just curious, with only a 4" head, how many knives total were they planning on putting on it? IMHO, the Shopsmith 4" jointer is a well built (perhaps overbuilt) tool, but the reality is it is ONLY 4" and a short bed length as well. I really don't understand why Shopsmith never attempted to build a wider jointer than 4". Most of the competition starts at 6" width today and some start at 8" width and go up from there. They could have made a fairly light 6" or 8" jointer that mounted on the Mark V, but that used the floating tables for infeed/outfeed support making a very compelling addition to the Shopsmith platform. In 2024, I just don't see how the Shopsmith 4" jointer competes, especially given some very nice benchtop 8" models out there from their competition. IF I didn't already own the Shopsmith 4" jointer, I would have already purchased one of the benchtop 8" jointers since I have a small shop. The Rikon 8" one comes with a helical head as well. The Shopsmith 4" jointer was really only built for edge jointing only and short length boards at that IMHO. They never considered face jointing as being necessary...must have assumed Shopsmith owners would be purchasing S4S lumber only from a big box store.

Previous Discussion on Shopsmith 4" Jointer:
viewtopic.php?p=312101#p312101

[BuckeyeDennis]

It just occurred to me that a replaceable-insert head like a Shelix probably wouldn't work in a Shopsmith jointer, in any case. Most jointers have an adjustable outfeed table, used for setting the outfeed table height relative to the blades. But not a Shopsmith -- you have to adjust all three blades radially to achieve that same adjustment. And I seriously doubt that a radial blade adjustment is even feasible on a carbide-insert head.

[SShoarder87]

I've gotten a reply, and it's going to be too expensive.

Thanks for taking this on and giving us the feedback. Just curious, with only a 4" head, how many knives total were they planning on putting on it? IMHO, the Shopsmith 4" jointer is a well built (perhaps overbuilt) tool, but the reality is it is ONLY 4" and a short bed length as well. I really don't understand why Shopsmith never attempted to build a wider jointer than 4". Most of the competition starts at 6" width today and some start at 8" width and go up from there. They could have made a fairly light 6" or 8" jointer that mounted on the Mark V, but that used the floating tables for infeed/outfeed support making a very compelling addition to the Shopsmith platform. In 2024, I just don't see how the Shopsmith 4" jointer competes, especially given some very nice benchtop 8" models out there from their competition. IF I didn't already own the Shopsmith 4" jointer, I would have already purchased one of the benchtop 8" jointers since I have a small shop. The Rikon 8" one comes with a helical head as well. The Shopsmith 4" jointer was really only built for edge jointing only and short length boards at that IMHO. They never considered face jointing as being necessary...must have assumed Shopsmith owners would be purchasing S4S lumber only from a big box store.

Previous Discussion on Shopsmith 4" Jointer:
viewtopic.php?p=312101#p312101

I considered this as well, and have heard someone in the community say they asked SS and the engineer said it was because of one main reason; weight. The heavier it got, the less they'd sell.

Imagine how much more it would weigh with an extra 2" width, plus associated structure, head, etc. The standard 4" is already 53lbs. I did some rough estimates and extrapolated the data a while back based on the 4"s weight, and concluded it could possibly weigh in at around 80lbs.

It's a rough guess, but if the 4" jointers weight is anything to go on...I'd be fine lifting that, as I'm pretty strong, but I could see how most wouldn't want to.

[SShoarder87]

It just occurred to me that a replaceable-insert head like a Shelix probably wouldn't work in a Shopsmith jointer, in any case. Most jointers have an adjustable outfeed table, used for setting the outfeed table height relative to the blades. But not a Shopsmith -- you have to adjust all three blades radially to achieve that same adjustment. And I seriously doubt that a radial blade adjustment is even feasible on a carbide-insert head.

Interesting. I didnt know other jointers were different in that way. I do think SS should make their own, though. Somehow. Straight knife is annoying to have to set.

[SShoarder87]

I've gotten a reply, and it's going to be too expensive.

Thanks for taking this on and giving us the feedback. Just curious, with only a 4" head, how many knives total were they planning on putting on it? IMHO, the Shopsmith 4" jointer is a well built (perhaps overbuilt) tool, but the reality is it is ONLY 4" and a short bed length as well. I really don't understand why Shopsmith never attempted to build a wider jointer than 4". Most of the competition starts at 6" width today and some start at 8" width and go up from there. They could have made a fairly light 6" or 8" jointer that mounted on the Mark V, but that used the floating tables for infeed/outfeed support making a very compelling addition to the Shopsmith platform. In 2024, I just don't see how the Shopsmith 4" jointer competes, especially given some very nice benchtop 8" models out there from their competition. IF I didn't already own the Shopsmith 4" jointer, I would have already purchased one of the benchtop 8" jointers since I have a small shop. The Rikon 8" one comes with a helical head as well. The Shopsmith 4" jointer was really only built for edge jointing only and short length boards at that IMHO. They never considered face jointing as being necessary...must have assumed Shopsmith owners would be purchasing S4S lumber only from a big box store.

Previous Discussion on Shopsmith 4" Jointer:
viewtopic.php?p=312101#p312101

Probably R&D at this point. They'd have to go back to the drawing board to make it lighter, and let's be real. shopsmith is a shadow of its former self in 2024. Much smaller operation now.

[RFGuy]

I considered this as well, and have heard someone in the community say they asked SS and the engineer said it was because of one main reason; weight. The heavier it got, the less they'd sell.

Imagine how much more it would weigh with an extra 2" width, plus associated structure, head, etc. The standard 4" is already 53lbs. I did some rough estimates and extrapolated the data a while back based on the 4"s weight, and concluded it could possibly weigh in at around 80lbs.

It's a rough guess, but if the 4" jointers weight is anything to go on...I'd be fine lifting that, as I'm pretty strong, but I could see how most wouldn't want to.

Probably R&D at this point. They'd have to go back to the drawing board to make it lighter, and let's be real. shopsmith is a shadow of its former self in 2024. Much smaller operation now.

It was a long thread that I referenced for you up above, so I will summarize here. I know it is a long shot in 2024 for Shopsmith to take this on, but what about the past 4 decades??? They continued selling an Edsel, long after consumers wanted an Esdel, i.e. Shopsmith 4" jointer = Edsel. In the other thread I pointed out there are more modern cast iron manufacturing methods that result in a much thinner (lighter) casting today. That 4" jointer is way over-built IMHO. Also, the Rikon 8" benchtop jointer I referenced has a beefy looking cast aluminum table and aluminum fences. The Mark V main table is cast aluminum. Why can't Shopsmith make a new 8" jointer with aluminum infeed/outfeed tables that mounts on the Mark V that is light and better performance than the old 4" jointer? Oh, right...it comes down to money, but wouldn't this be a big selling feature for the Mark 7? That 4" jointer is so antiquated and doesn't compete in the market that is available in 2024.

I still would be interested to know, for that proposed 4" jointer head from Shelix, how many cutter knives did they plan for it?