Kickback Incident

[colday]

you never use the miter gage and fence at the same time. this would be an accident waiting to happen. he should have clamped a scrap block to the fence near the front of the saw. the piece in the miter gage should be clear of (not touching) the scrap piece on the fence before it makes contact with the blade.

Yep, exactly as he said!

I knew I was doing something wrong & that is EXACTLY what should have stopped me. If it doesn't seem right, don't do it!

Heath, glad to hear you are okay, and thanks for bringing this up. One thing that really helps is when we share our accidents. I should have owned up to my boo-boo a long time ago.

Sure wish I had thought about taking pictures!

[dusty]

you never use the miter gage and fence at the same time. this would be an accident waiting to happen. he should have clamped a scrap block to the fence near the front of the saw. the piece in the miter gage should be clear of (not touching) the scrap piece on the fence before it makes contact with the blade.

I agree that the rip fence and miter gauge, if used together can be an accident waiting to happen but I do that frequently to cross cut a number of pieces to the same size.

The bigger hazard that I see in doing this is leaving the cutoff lay on the table surface while the next piece is being cut.

[ATTACH]6744[/ATTACH]

If this set up is seen by anyone has hazardous, let's discuss it so that no one gets hurt by doing it.

I am particularly interested because I have a doll house parquet floor to make. I shall have several pieces that I would normally cut this way.

[beeg]

The only thing I can think of right now is. Have the upper saw guard down, to keep cut pieces away from the blade.

[beeg]

Heath that's good thats all that happened. Hows the push stick?:)

[robinson46176]

I agree that the rip fence and miter gauge, if used together can be an accident waiting to happen but I do that frequently to cross cut a number of pieces to the same size.

The bigger hazard that I see in doing this is leaving the cutoff lay on the table surface while the next piece is being cut.

[ATTACH]6744[/ATTACH]

If this set up is seen by anyone has hazardous, let's discuss it so that no one gets hurt by doing it.

I am particularly interested because I have a doll house parquet floor to make. I shall have several pieces that I would normally cut this way.

I have done exactly like Dusty pictured lots of times but for maximum safety the stop block should always be thick enough that the cut off piece can rotate on the table between the blade and the fence without the opposite corners touching either the blade or the fence. For an example for the piece shown in the picture the stop block is probably thick enough. If it were a piece of 1" x 4" the block would need to be much thicker so the piece could rotate without binding at the corners.
I may not be saying this very well...
Even better would be a stop block attached to the table and the fence not being used at all. Pretty easy on a cast iron table, just use a strong magnet as a stop block. An old speaker magnet works great for that.
I think it was on an episode of NYW where he used a fence that slid back enough that the blade was fully out in front of the end of the pulled back fence.

[dlbristol]

I AGREE,What attracted my attention in the picture was the 3/4 in spacer. I do this set up as well, and I had a kick back with the cut off piece. The spacer was a piece of scrap that had been planed to 5/8 or so and I did not have the saw guard on. ( I know, stupid is as stupid does). When I cut off the stock (10 in or so), between the blade and the fence it was not an issue until it slid around to out of perpendicular to the fence. While the length of the piece was ok as long as it was perpendicular, the diagonal measurement apparently was long enough to touch both the fence and the blade. The longer and wider the cut off, the longer the diagonal will be, so that is something to consider. My kick back really didn't go to far or to fast, but it would have been painful if it hit you in the face. I now use the guard and a much thicker block ( 2x4) and I check to see that he cut off has cleared the blade or guard before I continue. I also was "reminded" to pull the held portion of the stock away from the blade before pulling it back. So now I make the cut, hold the miter guage with my left had, push the cut off off the table with a push stick (if needed) , clear the return stock and pull back. The extra width if the block seems to make this a safer procedure. There is plenty of room that way. I might also add that I was in a hurry, and upset at my bride when this happened. The old warning bells were ringing loud and clear and I ignored them! My shop is a refuge for me, but I have had to learn to do lay outs, or clean up , or wax or ?? when I am angry.

[mickyd]

I agree that the rip fence and miter gauge, if used together can be an accident waiting to happen but I do that frequently to cross cut a number of pieces to the same size.
...........

dusty - after making the cut, do you (should you) turn the saw off and remove the cut piece prior to making the next cut?

[johnmccrossen]

Dusty, It looks to me like you are cutting the short (unheld) piece to the specific length as determined by your stop block on the fence. It seems like you would want to clamp that piece with the miter guage in the right hand slot and leave the waste end free. If there is not enough room for your miter guage to do this, then you eliminate the rip fence and use a miter guage fence with an attached stop for your repeating cuts or just clamp a stop to your table. Just my thoughts on your question. (I now see you have lots of inputs while I was typing this.)

John McCrossen

[edflorence]

Heath-

I am sorry to hear about your accident. Your hand looks like it must have really hurt.

Your description of what happened brought back memeories of a very similar kickback that happened to me years ago. In my case, though, the cut-off missed me and took out a shop window. It is incredible how fast these kickbacks happen.

For what its worth, after that happened I adapted a safety lesson I learned at work to my shop practices. Years ago I was told that if you ever get a chemical splash in your eyes the first thing to do is grab your belt with both hands. Keeps your hands away from your eyes. What I do now in the shop whenever there is a cut-off lying on the saw table is shut down the motor and grab my belt until the saw quits spinning. To those folks who have never had a kickback, this little drill probably seems excessive; to the initiated it should make sense.

To be honest, there is one situation where I don't shut the saw down when there are cutoffs on the table and that is when cross-cutting multiple pieces with the sled or the miter gage. Each cut-off can be pushed off the table by the next one. This can only be done with the saw guard in place and nothing for the cut-off to bind against. The saw guard will hold the piece in place until the next piece comes along to move it past the blade. The cut-offs remaining on the table after all pieces are cut are removed after the saw stops spinning, as per above.

Thanks for sharing your experience; its good to be reminded of how much power there is in a power tool.

[charlese]

If this set up is seen by anyone has hazardous, let's discuss it so that no one gets hurt by doing it.

I am particularly interested because I have a doll house parquet floor to make. I shall have several pieces that I would normally cut this way.

Hi, Dusty, et al! Yes, I see a definite danger with sawing off short pieces as shown in your photo.

Agreeing with Francis and Dave:
A cutoff piece is free to get touched by a spinning saw blade, by rotating or just movement. It could get thrown big time!!!!

I also agree with John McCrossen:
Because it is dangerous to have a free piece of wood between the sawblade and the rip fence - you need to avoid the rip fence to set length.

I assume the reason you have this setup is because the miter gauge won't fit between the fence and the saw blade.

I suggest removing the rip fence and putting on a miter gauge extension. Then use a stop block on that extension. Then you can saw from either side of the blade.