Using 7 1/4" Table Saw Blade - appropriate?

[JPG]

I'm totally exhausted! Surely JPG must feel better now.

I did not go to all that effort to 'feel better'! I be trying to get my humble opinion better understood!


Being from 3 generations back, my view is quite different from folks less distant from 'then'. Although Ed made some very good points regarding why he is 'correct'("correctly so!"), my consternation has to do with the 'it is somebody else's 'fault' if I injure myself'. That is an all too common attitude these day's.

I cannot help but wonder how St. Peter will respond to that explanation of nefarious deeds!

[terrydowning]

my consternation has to do with the 'it is somebody else's 'fault' if I injure myself'. That is an all too common attitude these day's.

I agree totally. I think most safety recommendations/Ratings are the result of accountants and attorneys deciding how to limit liability and mitigate financial loss. I hope some subject matter experts are at least consulted along the way for real world facts and input.

I don't care what a bunch of accountants and lawyers have to say. I'll do what I know I can safely do based on my experience and judgement at the time. If I get hurt, it's on me.

This sentiment extends way beyond the topic of "can I use a smaller blade on my shopsmith" and is a generality. That being said, I have safely used a 7 1/4 inch circular saw blade on my Shopsmith. Granted the material I was sawing through was approx 1/2 inch thick soft pine. I made a Zero Clearance Inert for the smaller blade and made sure the blade would clear the cut before I even plugged in the saw. Cuts were clean and no problems. As long as you practice safe procedures, you shouldn't have a problem.

[dlbristol]

I agree totally. I think most safety recommendations/Ratings are the result of accountants and attorneys deciding how to limit liability and mitigate financial loss. I hope some subject matter experts are at least consulted along the way for real world facts and input.

I don't care what a bunch of accountants and lawyers have to say. I'll do what I know I can safely do based on my experience and judgement at the time. If I get hurt, it's on me.

This sentiment extends way beyond the topic of "can I use a smaller blade on my shopsmith" and is a generality. That being said, I have safely used a 7 1/4 inch circular saw blade on my Shopsmith. Granted the material I was sawing through was approx 1/2 inch thick soft pine. I made a Zero Clearance Inert for the smaller blade and made sure the blade would clear the cut before I even plugged in the saw. Cuts were clean and no problems. As long as you practice safe procedures, you shouldn't have a problem.

From a much less experienced woodworker, I have had a few things happen that have taught me to pay attention to those warnings. I simply do not have the experience to make those decisions. When I did, I had problems. I simply don't have the experience to decided something like that.( some may recall on another thread that I did a dummy and paid with a nasty red mark on the belly). Since then I am learning to trust my instincts that say " watch out" and I use the guards and fence, miter extensions ect when ever it is possible. I spend more time planning out a cut and look for the proper tool with more dedication. Your experience may allow you to do that safely, but the "safe procedure" for me is to follow the instructions, Ask on this forum and read all I can. I often marvel at what some of you can do with the same SS machine that I have. Many times I can't even begin to see how you did it, let alone how is was done safely. It is realistic, I think that one thing might be safe for you and dangerous as *(&^%^ for me.
I will not even try to climb cut with my router yet, but I know guys do it all the time. I still am way to uncomfortable with the machine and securing the work to go there. I would bet you can do it 'No sweat" but right now, my warning bells clang pretty loud! Good thread, thanks

[robinson46176]

[/B]

From a much less experienced woodworker, I have had a few things happen that have taught me to pay attention to those warnings. I simply do not have the experience to make those decisions. When I did, I had problems. I simply don't have the experience to decided something like that.( some may recall on another thread that I did a dummy and paid with a nasty red mark on the belly). Since then I am learning to trust my instincts that say " watch out" and I use the guards and fence, miter extensions ect when ever it is possible. I spend more time planning out a cut and look for the proper tool with more dedication. Your experience may allow you to do that safely, but the "safe procedure" for me is to follow the instructions, Ask on this forum and read all I can. I often marvel at what some of you can do with the same SS machine that I have. Many times I can't even begin to see how you did it, let alone how is was done safely. It is realistic, I think that one thing might be safe for you and dangerous as *(&^%^ for me.
I will not even try to climb cut with my router yet, but I know guys do it all the time. I still am way to uncomfortable with the machine and securing the work to go there. I would bet you can do it 'No sweat" but right now, my warning bells clang pretty loud! Good thread, thanks

Don't overlook the fastest and most useful resource of all, the web. I cannot believe the number of people that ask questions about all kinds of subjects on all kinds of email list and forums that never bother to use a simple search to look for answers. One should feel very free to ask questions especially specific ones but one also has a little responsibility to do a little ground work of their own just as you indicated that you have done. For this subject for example just a simple Google search on "Tablesaw safety" will bring anyone tons of info. While you might need to ask a number of questions specific to your unit (Shopsmith in this case) the general info is available in a super abundance all over the web. You can even find a lot of videos showing what not to do.
My whole life (and a lot of other peoples too) has been one long series of doing things for the first time that I was not experienced at. I have used a chainsaw constantly for over 50 years and just tried to learn all I could ahead of time when I started. The web was not very useful in the 1950's... The first time I hugged a big tree trunk and sawed 30' of the top off 40' above the ground I was not "experienced" at it. I just did it. I did though very carefully consider each move I made...
I was pretty nervous the first time I climbed on a motorcycle too but again I was just careful (still am).
When I bought my first sawmill I had no experience at cutting lumber.
Most people are safer doing something very dangerous while being very careful than doing something slightly dangerous with a casual or sloppy approach.
Anyone who has never done anything that turned their knuckles a little white should check their pulse, they may not even be really alive...

[dusty]

dlbristol, just remember that simply because I did it and did not get hurt does not necessarily mean that it was safe. I may have got lucky and dodged that proverbial bullet.

Conversely, I have done this many, many times and have not gotten hurt but the other day I was cutting some small pieces. I had done many that day but found out as I was winding up that I needed one more piece. I went back to cut it before I quit and started cleaning up. That piece somehow got caught by the blade and flew back at me catching me on the left thumb and then slamming me in the chest to leave a healthy black and blue mark that stayed for days.

I pride myself in being safe but every now and then ......well, you know....

[JPG]

[quote="robinson46176"]Don't overlook the fastest and most useful resource of all, the web. I cannot believe the number of people that ask questions about all kinds of subjects on all kinds of email list and forums that never bother to use a simple search to look for answers. One should feel very free to ask questions especially specific ones but one also has a little responsibility to do a little ground work of their own just as you indicated that you have done. For this subject for example just a simple Google search on "Tablesaw safety" will bring anyone tons of info. While you might need to ask a number of questions specific to your unit (Shopsmith in this case) the general info is available in a super abundance all over the web. You can even find a lot of videos showing what not to do.
My whole life (and a lot of other peoples too) has been one long series of doing things for the first time that I was not experienced at. I have used a chainsaw constantly for over 50 years and just tried to learn all I could ahead of time when I started. The web was not very useful in the 1950's... ]
Ah yes! This reminds me of when I was eliminating a hazardous tree from my front yard. My son-in-law and I were discussing how I was to go about it(:eek:this procedure involved leaning a 40' ladder against the tree and going up about 30' to initiate the removal:eek:), when my daughter came to the door and questioned WHAT WE WERE WAITING FOR!

I replied 'when this over, either this tree will be dead, or I will'! I am making sure it is the tree!

I recommend to no one to even think about doing such an extremely hazardous undertaking, but the point is to think through the process and anticipate what might happen(there was nothing to prevent the ladder from sliding around the tree and slipping off thus causing both the ladder and any occupant to move rapidly towards the earth both on the initial trip up and the last trip down except making sure it did not so move while traversing the ladder between the ends of the ladder). The ladder was tied to the tree in between. Then there was the need to saw the portion above the 'sawer' so that when it moved, it did so in a predicted direction and did not increase the degree of risk. Yes this required some well thought out guess work, but was necessary. Oh and it also had to miss some other objects between its initial location and the impact at the ground. Such undertakings are not for the careless nor the timid.

Part of the responsibility I referred to above includes the evaluation of one's own knowledge and whether it is sufficient for the undertaking. If unsure of ANYTHING, get confirmation before proceeding.

And remember you are traveling at your own risk!

[dlbristol]

You all said it better than I. I am learning, I am getting better and I am doing things more safely than I used to. Your thoughts are appreciated and respected. I have learned to search this forum as well, a very good safety tool.

[terrydowning]

[/B]

From a much less experienced woodworker, I have had a few things happen that have taught me to pay attention to those warnings. I simply do not have the experience to make those decisions. When I did, I had problems. I simply don't have the experience to decided something like that.( some may recall on another thread that I did a dummy and paid with a nasty red mark on the belly). Since then I am learning to trust my instincts that say " watch out" and I use the guards and fence, miter extensions ect when ever it is possible. I spend more time planning out a cut and look for the proper tool with more dedication. Your experience may allow you to do that safely, but the "safe procedure" for me is to follow the instructions, Ask on this forum and read all I can. I often marvel at what some of you can do with the same SS machine that I have. Many times I can't even begin to see how you did it, let alone how is was done safely. It is realistic, I think that one thing might be safe for you and dangerous as *(&^%^ for me.
I will not even try to climb cut with my router yet, but I know guys do it all the time. I still am way to uncomfortable with the machine and securing the work to go there. I would bet you can do it 'No sweat" but right now, my warning bells clang pretty loud! Good thread, thanks

Well said sir.

I wasn't implying it wasn't necessarily safe for you or anyone else. Always trust your own abilities (or lack thereof). If you don't know to a certainty that you can do anything safely it or you don't have the confidence. Then DON'T do it.

A new 10" blade costs less than $100.
Emergency surgery to repair an eye or severed limb many thousands of dollars

The wisdom to not do what don't feel safe doing - priceless.

[dusty]

I am not here to say that it is appropriate or that it is safe! I have not done this enough to make those comments. However, I had to see for myself.

I had a small plywood project pending so I decided to mount the plywood blade from my circular saw on the Mark V and check it out.

Using the 7 1/4" blade, the ZCI that was on the table, with the upper saw guard mounted, I made several very successful and uneventful cuts using the smaller blade. CAUTION: The anti-kickback feature is inoperative with this set up. If this was to become a normal setup, it would be imperative that an appropriate riving knife be developed and it would be good to incorporate the anti-kickback pawls into that design.

As always, safely is an issue and one must be ever mindful that one can get seriously injured doing what we do for fun - and to just make a point.

[ATTACH]10261[/ATTACH]

[JPG]

I am not here to say that it is appropriate or that it is safe! I have not done this enough to make those comments. However, I had to see for myself.

I had a small plywood project pending so I decided to mount the plywood blade from my circular saw on the Mark V and check it out.

Using the 7 1/4" blade, the ZCI that was on the table, with the upper saw guard mounted, I made several very successful and uneventful cuts using the smaller blade. CAUTION: The anti-kickback feature is inoperative with this set up. If this was to become a normal setup, it would be imperative that an appropriate riving knife be developed and it would be good to incorporate the anti-kickback pawls into that design.

As always, safely is an issue and one must be ever mindful that one can get seriously injured doing what we do for fun - and to just make a point.

[ATTACH]10261[/ATTACH]

Considering the fact that I have operated my Mark 5 for almost half a century with neither of those 'devices' and have not experienced the hazardous event(s) they are intended to prevent, I can agree that it is feasible to use a smaller blade with caution.(unless one is of the mindset that devices and following safety precautions are what prevent 'accidents')

The plywood blade I purchased with my Mark 5 (from a SS traveling dog and pony show 'barker') was 8". Still use it rarely. Not too much larger than 7 1/4 "!