New Owner - sorta kinda maybe almost - help!

[deadbox]

I've been getting by with hand me down, not quite right for the job, tools for while but now I'm going to be starting some real projects including some renovations and furniture I wanted to try my hand at. Now I'm up to tool purchases.

I've found a 1982 Shopsmith Mark V Model 500 with a 1 1/8hp motor and with the jointer, band saw, and router included for 600$ about an hour away from me. The SS looks in good shape, no rust in the pics I've seen and sounds like its in good condition and reasonably well cared for but the final look over will tell for sure.

From all the information Ive been able to gather this SS would have the small troublesome wobbly table and the single bearing quill. Assuming it all checks out ok the SS would be my primary tool so it all has to work and make accurate cuts. My main tool needs right now would be for a drill press, table saw and router. The band saw, jointer, lathe, disc sander and boring functions would be nice to have when I want them but not necessary at this stage.

So long story short, if this was a 510 instead of a 500 it would be a no brainer, buy it. But with the larger runout and smaller tables will the price and extra attachments make it worth while to struggle with small table and inaccuracy or should I spend the cash on more up to date single purpose drill press, table saw and router. Or I could be patient and wait to see if a 510 comes up in my area too.

Any ideas, comments or options are welcome. Help me make up my mind because I've never laid hands on a SS before but I've used plenty of tools before.

[JPG]

I've been getting by with hand me down, not quite right for the job, tools for while but now I'm going to be starting some real projects including some renovations and furniture I wanted to try my hand at. Now I'm up to tool purchases.

I've found a 1982 Shopsmith Mark V Model 500 with a 1 1/8hp motor and with the jointer, band saw, and router included for 600$ about an hour away from me. The SS looks in good shape, no rust in the pics I've seen and sounds like its in good condition and reasonably well cared for but the final look over will tell for sure.

From all the information Ive been able to gather this SS would have the small troublesome wobbly table and the single bearing quill. Assuming it all checks out ok the SS would be my primary tool so it all has to work and make accurate cuts. My main tool needs right now would be for a drill press, table saw and router. The band saw, jointer, lathe, disc sander and boring functions would be nice to have when I want them but not necessary at this stage.

So long story short, if this was a 510 instead of a 500 it would be a no brainer, buy it. But with the larger runout and smaller tables will the price and extra attachments make it worth while to struggle with small table and inaccuracy or should I spend the cash on more up to date single purpose drill press, table saw and router. Or I could be patient and wait to see if a 510 comes up in my area too.

Any ideas, comments or options are welcome. Help me make up my mind because I've never laid hands on a SS before but I've used plenty of tools before.

I would not be concerned about the number of bearings in the quill. My 1963 Mark 5 still has the 'single bearing quill'. It also has the 'smaller tables. Sure bigger would at times have been better, but where did you get the idea it was 'wobbly?

More important than all those bigger and 'better(?)' things is setup and alignment. And technique! The craftsman makes the quality, but some equipment makes it easier if used correctly.

At this point it would be a major improvement over 'hand tools' and it can always be upgraded later to 510 or 520 status.

I say go for it!

Just make sure the 'condition' is as you described!

[recurvearcher]

First,as many postings on this Forum show,any SS in good condition and adjustment will deliver outstanding results. For home renovation and large furniture projects, I would prefer the 510 over the 500 for the increased table size alone.With a SS, you can always upgrade to the 510 or even 520 or PowerPro. I would take a look at the 500 to determine the overall condition of it,the SPT's and other included accessories. Perhaps make an offer if they are in good condition.If it's in rough shape or If your in an area where used 510's are abundant, wait for a 510. Whether to buy stand alone tool or a SS? I've never had the luxury of having enough shop space to duplicate the functions of a SS with stand alone tools. In my area(S.CA.), one would be hard pressed to find a used table saw and drill press to match the quality of the SS for the price you mention.

[wannabewoodworker]

I agree 100% with JPG I would buy it as long as it is in good shape that is quite a good deal for everything you are going to get price it all out and you will see. I have a Mark V and Mark VII both with single bearing quills and they seem to be damn accurate for everything I have used them for so far.

[michaeltoc]

My 1985 model 500 has served me well for many, many years. There were times I wished I had the larger main and floating tables, but always got by without them. A few years ago I finally upgraded to the 520, and recently to the PowerPro. While I highly recommend these upgrades, and often wonder how I got by without them, I would suggest that they are not absolutely necessary to produce quality work. As long as the motor is in good shape you should be fine. Get it, use it, and decide later if you want to upgrade. As JPG said, the setup and alignment is critical. If the unit does not come with the manual - get one so that you have the alignment procedures.

While I was always impressed with the quality of the 500, I really noticed it when I took the headstock apart to install the PowerPro upgrade. After 26 years, the internal parts were almost as good as new. Even the belts, while showing some wear, still had a few more years of life in them!

[deadbox]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm now the proud owner of a 1982 Mark V Model 500 with Bandsaw, Jointer, Belt Sander, and Router.

I went out to look at it and it is in rougher shape then they let on. The previous owner didn't know very much about his machine but the sheaves are still mobile, the tubes have very little rust. Too bad I can't say the same for the rest, theres surface rust on most pieces, and some pieces are missing but I managed to cart it away for 450$ instead.

Now starts the restoration and maintenance, again any tips, pointers, advice, or tricks would help. Job number 1 is the headstock, I'll post some pics along the way.

[ddvann79]

Please post lots of pictures! We enjoy them.

Being relatively new to the Shopsmith, I can't offer much but here are a few links that have been helpful to me in my journey to restore my old SS. Most of it deals with the 500.

1. First, mickyd's catalog of repair discussions on this forum. The Sawdust Sessions are the second bullet and walk you through cleaning and lubricating the headstock. Also, check out the restoration threads.
2. Ebay is a great place for replacement part and you can sometimes get them new from Shopsmith, Inc. for about the same price.
3. I HIGHLY recommend acquiring a copy of "Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone" as it has much user information in it and a lot of great ideas for jigs and homemade accessories. Plus it gives you a good idea of how the machine was intended to be used. Other literature you may need is a manual, which is available from Shopsmith or you can download digital copies from the 1950's here.
4. Here's Nick Engler's disassembly and cleaning instructions.
5. Shopsmith Most Common Problems and Remedies
6. Instructions for posting photos. Post lots!

Lastly, the "search" function on this forum is a powerful tool for finding help when you need it. Just be sure to enter words with four letters or more.

All the best.

[robinson46176]

I would not be concerned about the number of bearings in the quill. My 1963 Mark 5 still has the 'single bearing quill'. It also has the 'smaller tables. Sure bigger would at times have been better, but where did you get the idea it was 'wobbly?

More important than all those bigger and 'better(?)' things is setup and alignment. And technique! The craftsman makes the quality, but some equipment makes it easier if used correctly.

At this point it would be a major improvement over 'hand tools' and it can always be upgraded later to 510 or 520 status.

I say go for it!

Just make sure the 'condition' is as you described!

I agree completely with everything you say here JPG...
Having 37 bearings in the quill will not make it better. Having a 10' x 10' table anchored in 4 yards of concrete will not make it better. There is a standard business factor called "the point of diminishing return". Tighter specs like quill run-out only help up to "the point of diminishing return"... A bigger table only helps up to "TPODR"...
The two bearing quill thing gained a lot of impetus from guys replacing a worn single bearing quill with a new two bearing quill and reporting major improvements. Nothing gets said about comparing a "new" single bearing quill to a new two bearing quill. The "new" two bearing quill is always compared to a "worn" single bearing quill... Not good science... In every day real world use I do not believe that the average woodworker can tell the difference between a new two bearing quill and a new single bearing quill if they do not know which they are using. I have several of both and I can't... Understand that I do not by nature "borrow trouble" as my father used to often say. If something needs fixing, fix it. If it doesn't need fixing just use it and enjoy it.
I am pretty quick to modify something "if" I can see a big gain. If there is no substantial gain why "borrow trouble".

I do like the larger table on my 510 but all I ever make use of is the table and fence (and it does require the 510 carriage) but all of that other crap that came with the 510 that I was just sure I had to have just gathers dust. Legs, pipes, floating tables etc. was just wasted money for me. The basic 500 was a good design back when they first built it and it is still a good solid design today...

[billmayo]

The two bearing quill thing gained a lot of impetus from guys replacing a worn single bearing quill with a new two bearing quill and reporting major improvements. Nothing gets said about comparing a "new" single bearing quill to a new two bearing quill. The "new" two bearing quill is always compared to a "worn" single bearing quill... Not good science... In every day real world use I do not believe that the average woodworker can tell the difference between a new two bearing quill and a new single bearing quill if they do not know which they are using. I have several of both and I can't... Understand that I do not by nature "borrow trouble" as my father used to often say. If something needs fixing, fix it. If it doesn't need fixing just use it and enjoy it.

I agree completely with Farmer on this subject. A Shopsmith Engineer in the 90s told me the idea behind the 2 bearing quill was that Total Shop (clone) was offering a 2 bearing quill, so Shopsmith offered the same feature in 1985 as a selling feature.

I never fully understood how a second bearing about 4" away from the front bearing would provide any additional arbor support when the Drive Sleeve supported the splined end with 2 larger bearings. I have some used single bearing quills with less play/runout than most of the used 2 bearing quills I have.

Once I started using my dedicated drill press as a milling machine (X/Y vise), I found adding a second bearing behind the front quill bearing did improve accuracy with less side runout and wear over time than the Shopsmith 2 bearing quill. I believe with 2 bearings together supporting the quill arbor end helps reduce the side loading on each bearing and the excessive wear I found with only one bearing to support that end.

I try to use a higher quality quill bearing (202KDD5 or ABEC3 rated) than the motor grade bearing used after the Greenies (50s).

I made a bearing and shaft testing jig to check for any quill shaft distortion (bent shaft) and bearing side play. I am finding bent quill shafts (.002" to 030") that the customer never noticed when using the Shopsmith. Some customers complained about a vibration that I found was from the bent quill shaft.

[jimsjinx]

Listen, after some maintanance and the learnig curve, you're gonna LOVE your shopsmith! I've got a 10ER, and it has been to Russia and back! It is dead on accurate, and smooth as silk! I, like you, started with a handsaw set, and a pair of sawhorses! Literally! The SS was the first real "power" tool, other than a drill and hand tools. I have planed hundreds of projects by hand. I feel your exuberance getting all those great tools for less than the price of a cheap tablesaw! In my lifetime, it seems that if the SS was used, and kept running, it does not matter how many bearings it has. Seems that abuse is the only thing that can hurt these things! You can always upgrade later. There is virtually anything you could ever want available from somebody here on the forum. You can't beat the folks here for help, either! Congratulations on your new to you Shopsmith! jimsjinx