Price Frustration

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ddvann79
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Tedious Economic Theory

Post by ddvann79 »

BEWARE - your eyes may glaze over.
Ed in Tampa wrote:I believe the problem is the result of annual pay increases, those increases that come just because someone was there last year. ...Many are being priced out of the hobby today.
I believe you have touched on one aspect, Ed. Other contributors would be:

1. The rising cost of construction commodities such as steel and concrete, which have been diverted in recent history to the rapidly developing Asian giants. Greater quantity demanded = higher price. These commodities would include other raw materials.

2. Shipping does play a role in price appreciation when goods are manufactured over seas and imported.

3. A falling dollar means that imported raw materials and component parts are relatively more expensive. Therefore, to remain competitive the quality of products must decline or employment must suffer. For products to remain high quality that are manufactured state side, price increases must be passed on to the consumer and/or employee productivity must increase to decrease marginal unit costs. This is why I do not understand economic protectionism from a policy perspective, given our global economy today. Policy makers want to keep local jobs while other governmental entities devalue the dollar at the same time. That's ludicrous. If the dollar were getting cyclically stronger it would make a lot more sense.

4. Concurrently, a falling dollar makes imported finished goods more expensive, especially electronics and appliances.

5. A culture increasingly dependent upon technology that was not necessary 10 years ago (and probably not necessary now) means that more comparable real income is diverted to gadgets like cell phones, MP3s, personal computers, flat screen TVs, etc. The same reliance on technology is true for business especially for data services that were not available in the past. Business now pays for these services with no real increase in net profits since the increased efficiency has the competitive effect of driving prices down. Expenditures are diverted to new technology with no increase in net income. The flip side of the coin is that some new technology jobs are created.

6. Increased governmental interference in markets, regulations and the flow of monies at a macro level reduces efficiencies of private companies and individuals at the micro level and increases risk. Increased risk means investors require greater returns so marginal deals don't get done and companies sit on cash stock piles. Larger companies are just now starting to feel like they have enough reserves to being a little additional spending, while smaller shops never had enough to begin with!

7. My dad and I had a discussion about education costs a while back. We discussed his nominal income when he got out of college as compared to my nominal income when I finished. We came to the conclusion I was no better off than he was at the same point. However, it cost me proportionately more to complete my education than it did for him. So to be on a level playing field, over time the cost of education has risen (at least anecdotally), resulting in a proportionately declining return on that investment. I believe this is partially due to the declining quality of primary education, which requires employers to seek those with secondary credentials for entry level jobs.

The most important factors are the declining dollar (partially intentional) and a diversion of wealth based on changing priorities (consumer behavior).

I would note that we are in a deep and wide recessionary trough that really started with respect to real income prior to 2005. Continued market intervention will result in a prolonged trough so I don't expect a change for another five years or more. Don't believe all you hear about "improving economic conditions" because most "positive" statistics that are reported are at the margin, not relative to the whole body of data, or they are quoted as percentage change, not a nominal or real change. I intermittently track this kind of information in my work. In my opinion, we are bouncing along the bottom. But as the global economy improves, our ship will be raised with the rising tide as well. The question is, has our ship gotten smaller?

I have to say, I'm once again impressed by the broad knowledge base and sage experience on this forum.
Dalton
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

ddvann79 wrote:BEWARE - your eyes may glaze over.



I believe you have touched on one aspect, Ed. Other contributors would be:

1. The rising cost of construction commodities such as steel and concrete, which have been diverted in recent history to the rapidly developing Asian giants. Greater quantity demanded = higher price. These commodities would include other raw materials.

2. Shipping does play a role in price appreciation when goods are manufactured over seas and imported.

3. A falling dollar means that imported raw materials and component parts are relatively more expensive. Therefore, to remain competitive the quality of products must decline or employment must suffer. For products to remain high quality that are manufactured state side, price increases must be passed on to the consumer and/or employee productivity must increase to decrease marginal unit costs. This is why I do not understand economic protectionism from a policy perspective, given our global economy today. Policy makers want to keep local jobs while other governmental entities devalue the dollar at the same time. That's ludicrous. If the dollar were getting cyclically stronger it would make a lot more sense.

4. Concurrently, a falling dollar makes imported finished goods more expensive, especially electronics and appliances.

5. A culture increasingly dependent upon technology that was not necessary 10 years ago (and probably not necessary now) means that more comparable real income is diverted to gadgets like cell phones, MP3s, personal computers, flat screen TVs, etc. The same reliance on technology is true for business especially for data services that were not available in the past. Business now pays for these services with no real increase in net profits since the increased efficiency has the competitive effect of driving prices down. Expenditures are diverted to new technology with no increase in net income. The flip side of the coin is that some new technology jobs are created.

6. Increased governmental interference in markets, regulations and the flow of monies at a macro level reduces efficiencies of private companies and individuals at the micro level and increases risk. Increased risk means investors require greater returns so marginal deals don't get done and companies sit on cash stock piles. Larger companies are just now starting to feel like they have enough reserves to being a little additional spending, while smaller shops never had enough to begin with!

7. My dad and I had a discussion about education costs a while back. We discussed his nominal income when he got out of college as compared to my nominal income when I finished. We came to the conclusion I was no better off than he was at the same point. However, it cost me proportionately more to complete my education than it did for him. So to be on a level playing field, over time the cost of education has risen (at least anecdotally), resulting in a proportionately declining return on that investment. I believe this is partially due to the declining quality of primary education, which requires employers to seek those with secondary credentials for entry level jobs.

The most important factors are the declining dollar (partially intentional) and a diversion of wealth based on changing priorities (consumer behavior).

I would note that we are in a deep and wide recessionary trough that really started with respect to real income prior to 2005. Continued market intervention will result in a prolonged trough so I don't expect a change for another five years or more. Don't believe all you hear about "improving economic conditions" because most "positive" statistics that are reported are at the margin, not relative to the whole body of data, or they are quoted as percentage change, not a nominal or real change. I intermittently track this kind of information in my work. In my opinion, we are bouncing along the bottom. But as the global economy improves, our ship will be raised with the rising tide as well. The question is, has our ship gotten smaller?

I have to say, I'm once again impressed by the broad knowledge base and sage experience on this forum.

Not bad for an econ major!:D Our ship has already gotten smaller! And yes those 'percentage' rantings are IMHO quite deceiving.

Like those folks that are going around saying we are/must 'reduce the "deficit"'. I would be much happier if they were considering reducing the "debt". They do not want to 'fix' the problem. They merely want to 'slow it down'.

I remember when a tiled floor and chairs was good enough for a 'waiting room'. Now we have interior decorating with carpet and sofas and TV! Guess who is paying for all that ambiance!;)
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cv3
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Post by cv3 »

I could afford the hobbies and the tools if it was not for those Doctors and keeping an old house working right.
Make today a day that lets you smile!
CV
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Post by easterngray »

Gentlemen I hope you will take this response in the true spirit of fellowship with which it is intended.

Thanks be to God that we have such troubles! The fact that we can enjoy hobbies, and have any disposable income to put towards them is a great blessing.

I try and be grateful that I have a toilet, hot water and heat in this miserable weather. My Shopsmith, and indeed any of my tools are an embarrasment of riches to much of the world.

I DO share the same frustration with the rising cost of living and the same worry over the backwards economy here in the US. But when I feel the hair standing up on the back of my neck I try and remember to stop and ask God to forgive me and give Him thanks for all that he has blessed me with. Every penny I ever earned is still only through His mercy and grace.

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ddvann79
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Post by ddvann79 »

easterngray wrote:Gentlemen I hope you will take this response in the true spirit of fellowship with which it is intended.

Thanks be to God that we have such troubles! The fact that we can enjoy hobbies, and have any disposable income to put towards them is a great blessing.

I try and be grateful that I have a toilet, hot water and heat in this miserable weather. My Shopsmith, and indeed any of my tools are an embarrasment of riches to much of the world.

I DO share the same frustration with the rising cost of living and the same worry over the backwards economy here in the US. But when I feel the hair standing up on the back of my neck I try and remember to stop and ask God to forgive me and give Him thanks for all that he has blessed me with. Every penny I ever earned is still only through His mercy and grace.

Alec
True indeed. We are still richly blessed.

I'm intrigued you chose to use the phrase "embarrassment of riches." Who is embarrassed; you or the rest of the world?
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Post by easterngray »

I am; when I forget to be grateful.
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Post by swampgator »

Amen, Eastern Grace. We can be thankful that we are blessed to have the abilities to do our hobbies plus the tools and electricity to do them with. As one who can't get homeowners insurance here in Florida, my first activity each morning is to be thankful that I still have a place to lay my head, food to eat and some privacy for those necesary activities. And, then I can go to the garage and pull out the Shopsmith and make something that I've never done before. At the store parking lots, I am thankful that I don't need a handicap parking spot. When we think about it, we have very much to be thankful for. Thanks for your post to bring us back to reality. I can remember at the age of 4, carrying water from a spring to wash, cook, laundry and everything. We did get electricity in 1951 with a porcelin fixture in the ceiling with a string hanging down. We had the priviledge to go to the outhouse. So, compared to then, we are so blessed.:)
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I just love it when she says I can go make sawdust. ;) :D
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Post by dusty »

Amen to indoor plumbing.

I remember, on Saturday nights, pumping, carrying and heating water for the weekly bath. We each took our turn. The person following brought additional hot water right from the kitchen wood stove. The last person done (usually Grandpa) pulled the plug to drain the rubber tub that we had all just used. Being last, Grandpa usually brought two big buckets of hot water with him. I always wished that I was big enough to carry those two big buckets.

We certainly do have much to be thankful for. Much that I all too often take for granted.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
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Post by swampgator »

cv3 wrote:I could afford the hobbies and the tools if it was not for those Doctors and keeping an old house working right.
CV3, I think many of us could do the same. Certainly is true here in Pensacola, too.;)
Steve, the old Florida gator

I just love it when she says I can go make sawdust. ;) :D
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Post by zacker »

lol.. think this hobby is expensive? try photography!! just for kicks, go to any reputable site like B&H . com and look at what one of canons pro lenses costs.. my god, how do you actually enjoy a hobby you love but cant take full advantage of cause you cant afford a lens that costs asmuch or more than your new camera? lol
Wood worker wanna be with some tools, One deaf Aussie/Border Collie Mix, A Coonhound named Sam, twocats and a wife..lol :D
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