Lower tubes - install and align with upper tubes?

[fitzhugh]

The lower tubes butt against a stop in the right side base but not on the left.
So just what is the proper way of adjusting the length of the lower tubes? I think previously I clamped down the upper tubes/tie bar to the left side base first. That leaves no room for error.
This time the tie bar ended up hitting the base before reaching full down/horizontal.
Thanks

[JPG]

The lower tubes butt against a stop in the right side base but not on the left.
So just what is the proper way of adjusting the length of the lower tubes? I think previously I clamped down the upper tubes/tie bar to the left side base first. That leaves no room for error.
This time the tie bar ended up hitting the base before reaching full down/horizontal.
Thanks

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=41342#post41342

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https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3823

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[SDSSmith]

The lower tubes butt against a stop in the right side base but not on the left.
So just what is the proper way of adjusting the length of the lower tubes? I think previously I clamped down the upper tubes/tie bar to the left side base first. That leaves no room for error.
This time the tie bar ended up hitting the base before reaching full down/horizontal.
Thanks

After butting the tubes up against the stops in the left hand casting, my starting point is sliding the tubes in the base casting leaving 48-1/4" of bench tube exposed. I would then make slight adjustments from this point.

[STB]

[[/URL]
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3823

Beginning with my first attempt at alignment I have been frustrated with achieving consistent alignment results. I finally gave up and decided to complain about the SS alignment.

I wonder if this is the root cause of the inconstant alignment failure.

We are packed up for our annual northern migration. All of my SS equipment is put away for the summer. This will be the first task this fall.

[JPG]

Beginning with my first attempt at alignment I have been frustrated with achieving consistent alignment results. I finally gave up and decided to complain about the SS alignment.

I wonder if this is the root cause of the inconstant alignment failure.

We are packed up for our annual northern migration. All of my SS equipment is put away for the summer. This will be the first task this fall.

I am convinced that lack of all 4 tubes being parallel will indeed lead to some alignment variation. If the tubes are not parallel the upper(way) tubes could be twisted relative to the bench tubes. It is this that I think the tie rod rest screw attempts to correct. As the headstock and/or carriage are traversed along the way tubes they may rotate relative to each other. The spt mounts will be stationary to that rotation. Leveling was my way to attempt to eliminate any twist.

[JPG]

This twisting will not affect blade to miter gauge slot alignment, fence to miter gauge slot/blade alignment, nor miter gauge settings nor table perpendicular to quill in drill press mode.

If will affect lathe center alignment, quill centering on the drill press table, spt shaft alignment and extension table alignment(which are both also affected by end casting alignment).


So multi-tasking machines are not all that simple. Some adjustments are independent, some are not.

[fitzhugh]

Fantastic help, as always!

It seems to me you'd have to start with the lower tubes level, then the right side of the way tubes should be level, and then use the screw to level the left side of the way tubes. I haven't gotten to this stage before as I promptly took the two MVs apart for inspection and cleaning. I'll try searching again since I know this is covered in the forum. I guess I chose poor search terms for this particular question.

Too bad the floor of my shop is wonky as hell in at least 4 dimensions. Time for some shims. I've repeatedly pointed out to the landlord the increasing slope of the floor. Seems they built the old house on rubble fill. I guess this will be an annual task, at least until we move or fall through the floor.
Thanks,
Fitzhugh

[JPG]

[quote="fitzhugh"]Fantastic help, as always!

It seems to me you'd have to start with the lower tubes level, then the right side of the way tubes should be level, and then use the screw to level the left side of the way tubes. I haven't gotten to this stage before as I promptly took the two MVs apart for inspection and cleaning. I'll try searching again since I know this is covered in the forum. I guess I chose poor search terms for this particular question.

Too bad the floor of my shop is wonky as hell in at least 4 dimensions. Time for some shims. I've repeatedly pointed out to the landlord the increasing slope of the floor. Seems they built the old house on rubble fill. I guess this will be an annual task, at least until we move or fall through the floor.
Thanks,

Level is only a way to make the tubes parallel. That is why I included a shim the bench tubes(on the horses) step. I did not have a better method(wixey?) at the time.

So level floor is not necessary. However if the floor is not a flat plane the legs MAY introduce some twist. I think the legs are more likely to rock. The legs do have some give.

There is no way to 'level' the right side. You are dependent upon the end casting for that.

[dusty]

Fantastic help, as always!

It seems to me you'd have to start with the lower tubes level, then the right side of the way tubes should be level, and then use the screw to level the left side of the way tubes. I haven't gotten to this stage before as I promptly took the two MVs apart for inspection and cleaning. I'll try searching again since I know this is covered in the forum. I guess I chose poor search terms for this particular question.

Too bad the floor of my shop is wonky as hell in at least 4 dimensions. Time for some shims. I've repeatedly pointed out to the landlord the increasing slope of the floor. Seems they built the old house on rubble fill. I guess this will be an annual task, at least until we move or fall through the floor.
Thanks,
Fitzhugh

If you do not have a time table to keep AND you do have a bench top that is flat and level and it is large enough, I would suggest that you take the legs off and set the rest of the Mark V up on the bench top. Depending on how physically fit you are, this might best be done with the Headstock, Carriage and Table removed. They can be added later but before you put the legs back on.

If you do this, I believe you will immediately see evidence of what you fighting to overcome. The Base and Headrest will not be setting flat on the bench (resting on all fours).

Loosen the set screws that secure the Bench Tubes and work to achieve that starting posture. Once that is done, the rest more-or-less follows.

[fitzhugh]

JPG, the photos in the 2nd link show your machines, right? Have you repainted that goldie, or have you managed to keep it that pristine all these years? Of course I can o nly see the underside of the way tube shim screw area, but impressive.

Dusty, no timetable, though I have to leave town for the weekend tomorrow and, while I will enjoy the trip, I know I'll keep wanting to walk into the shop and tinker with the Mark V.

I put my proper bench build (vs. previous salvaged desk thing) on hold when I got the two ss off craigslist. However, I approximated what you suggest. My goal currently is to get the four tubes all parallel to each other...

With the way tubes off and the base on the floor upside down, I first shimmed the RH side of the base so the lower tubes were level, checking across the two tubes but ignoring the length of the tubes. I then played around until the other end was level across the tubes and the tubes had 48 1/4 inches exposed. I tightened down and flipped it back over, and wow! I knew the floor was off but didn't realize how much. I've shimmed the base on the floor and checked it all again and it seems good to go, though I expect to repeat the process with more care after I've got it all running right. I know it will still flex if not shimmed on the floor just right but it is a start.

Edit: forgot to mention: I looked around for something to use as temporary shims and came up with using a set of hex wrenches. They varied in size in small enough amounts over the right range so I was able to level the upside down bases, hex wrenches between base and floor.
So, now to go replace the way tube assembly - that poor roll pin! I've got to pick up some replacements.