Special Operations....
Next up is chapter 4. Yes it is another week and yes it is time to do your reading, and this is a shorter chapter, but we don't have to make it so here. Please go to:
http://www.shopsmith.com/academy/tblsaw_spops/index.htm
You can find other threads related to reading through the on line version of the PTWFE at:
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=2985
(initial ideas)
and at:
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=2997
(the first chapter)
and at:
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3049
(the second chapter)
and at:
http://www.shopsmith.com/academy/tblsaw_joinery/index.htmhttps://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3079
(the third chapter)
Ed
PTWFE Chapter Table Saw Special Opts CH4
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PTWFE Chapter Table Saw Special Opts CH4
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
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a1gutterman
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- Location: "close to" Seattle
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a1gutterman
- Platinum Member
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- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:45 am
- Location: "close to" Seattle
Thanks Bob, Seen that. Actually watched it in progress. I was thinking more along the lines of a project that had the intricate piercings that Chapter 4 is showing. Anyone?lv2wdwrk wrote:Tim,
You might check this link
http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Archives/SST108_Trivets.htm
Tim
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Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Many many years ago the shopsmith hands-on magazine had the trivet shown, don't recall the issue but I built several of them using first the dado blade (that was just an OK way to go) and then with the molder head and a round cutter (again OK but the round cutter was too large so I wasn't so happy with it). All in all it was too much sanding to get them nice. Today's equipment might make that easier but I haven't tried.
I also did a grill sort of piece for an electronics project just using the saw blade. It did look neat but as the dust collected and the fact the cuts were not as smooth as they needed to be it would catch bits of dust and rag and well it was not as nice... I replaced it with a smooth top and vented the back. May have been the material, a walnut plywood?? Again that was a long while back and the new blades cut a lot smoother so maybe today it would work better.
The only thing in this chapter I haven't done is the coving stuff. I guess I've never had a reason to try that.
Ed
I also did a grill sort of piece for an electronics project just using the saw blade. It did look neat but as the dust collected and the fact the cuts were not as smooth as they needed to be it would catch bits of dust and rag and well it was not as nice... I replaced it with a smooth top and vented the back. May have been the material, a walnut plywood?? Again that was a long while back and the new blades cut a lot smoother so maybe today it would work better.
The only thing in this chapter I haven't done is the coving stuff. I guess I've never had a reason to try that.
Ed
a1gutterman wrote:Has anyone done any piercing as described in this chapter? If so, what kind of project did you build?
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
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a1gutterman
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- Location: "close to" Seattle
I have done a little of the kerf cutting to bend wood (just for concrete forms and landscaping purposes), but I have never actually measured it out like Chapter 4 is instructing. As you have stated that you have done this technique, I was wondering if you actually space your kerfs "by the book"?reible wrote:...The only thing in this chapter I haven't done is the coving stuff. I guess I've never had a reason to try that.
Ed
Tim
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Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Hi,
The figure 4-3 where you clamp the wood then bend and measure is the extend of my by the book... the old PTWFE that came with my shopsmith had this method shown and none of the math. I also found out I was better off with using less distance but the biggest problem seem to be different woods reacted differently to this process as well as how the wood was cut from the mill. I haven't done this in quiet a while.
The lamination method where you have thin strips and glue them up and put them on a form seems to be a stronger method but not without its problems. The first time I tried this I had no idea how slippery the pieces would be with the glue on them nor had I even seen anyone do it so I was in for too many surprises and well it wasn't a pretty sight.... and poor planning of the clamping combined with it taking to long to do.... disaster. One of the few times I gotten to a point where I knew I was beaten by the task... Ed 0, task 1, but in the end I did win the game.
I do have a project coming up sometime where I'm going back to the kerf bending and I have a sheet of bendable plywood I planning on trying to fit over the kerfed board. I got the plywood about 5 years ago but I just never seem to get to the project... so no promises on when if ever I will ever get to this.
Ed
The figure 4-3 where you clamp the wood then bend and measure is the extend of my by the book... the old PTWFE that came with my shopsmith had this method shown and none of the math. I also found out I was better off with using less distance but the biggest problem seem to be different woods reacted differently to this process as well as how the wood was cut from the mill. I haven't done this in quiet a while.
The lamination method where you have thin strips and glue them up and put them on a form seems to be a stronger method but not without its problems. The first time I tried this I had no idea how slippery the pieces would be with the glue on them nor had I even seen anyone do it so I was in for too many surprises and well it wasn't a pretty sight.... and poor planning of the clamping combined with it taking to long to do.... disaster. One of the few times I gotten to a point where I knew I was beaten by the task... Ed 0, task 1, but in the end I did win the game.
I do have a project coming up sometime where I'm going back to the kerf bending and I have a sheet of bendable plywood I planning on trying to fit over the kerfed board. I got the plywood about 5 years ago but I just never seem to get to the project... so no promises on when if ever I will ever get to this.
Ed
a1gutterman wrote:I have done a little of the kerf cutting to bend wood (just for concrete forms and landscaping purposes), but I have never actually measured it out like Chapter 4 is instructing. As you have stated that you have done this technique, I was wondering if you actually space your kerfs "by the book"?
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
No I haven't done any pierce cuttings. Sorry!
But have made full arched coves using the table saw a couple of times. The coves were for decorative feet. It was fascinating to me how the width vs the height of the cove can be varied by slope of the wood across the saw and the angle tilt of the blade - tilt of the table for us. Somewhere, I have a table of compound angles and sawblade size and what coves can be formed. I think the table is in Nick's book-"Woodworking Wisdom".
Here's my use of coves. These feet were for a corner cabinet -
[ATTACH]3411[/ATTACH]
EDIT: Had to edit to remove the term "a 180 degree cove".
But have made full arched coves using the table saw a couple of times. The coves were for decorative feet. It was fascinating to me how the width vs the height of the cove can be varied by slope of the wood across the saw and the angle tilt of the blade - tilt of the table for us. Somewhere, I have a table of compound angles and sawblade size and what coves can be formed. I think the table is in Nick's book-"Woodworking Wisdom".
Here's my use of coves. These feet were for a corner cabinet -
[ATTACH]3411[/ATTACH]
EDIT: Had to edit to remove the term "a 180 degree cove".
- Attachments
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- HPIM0961.jpg (131.89 KiB) Viewed 7489 times
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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perryobear
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Raised Panels
Hi Guys,
Well I have finally caught-up and I am now working in the same “chapter week” as everyone else.
I have been reading both the old (1955) and new versions of PTWFE. I have been looking at the Chapter 4 procedure for cutting raised panels using the table saw. I have never made a raised panel and I have some observations and questions.
1. Proper depth of the bevel cut
The old PTWFE version speaks about cutting the raised panel using one of two methods:
a. “Cut the bevel just deep enough to make the bevel – leaving a slight shoulder on the work”.
OR
b. First cutting a shallow kerf on the face of the board “and the bevel is cut so that it will meet the kerf”
Each of these two methods will define the edge of the raised part of the panel by making it stand proud of the bevel (Method b producing a 90 deg edge).
The new PTWFE version makes a slight change to the method:
c. “Set table height so the inside edge of the blade penetrates through the stock”.
I assume the “inside edge of the blade” is the edge closest to the fence. If so, this will result in the bevel being even with panel surface with no defined edge around the panel.
[ATTACH]3429[/ATTACH]
Questions:
Am I correct in my assumption of what the “inside edge of the blade” means?
Are all three methods OK and its just a matter of personal preference on the final appearance of the panel? Or, is Method c. a misprint and I should set the table height based on the outside edge of the blade? This would be the same as Method a, and on close inspection, Figure 4-23 in the new PTWFE would seem to be showing Method a.
-----------------------------------
2. Dealing with the Outside Edges of the Raised Panel:
Most router/shaper raised panel profiles I've seen seem to taper out the panel edges to a flat profile to fit a slot in the rails and stiles of the project. We won't get this when using the table saw method.
Question:
When making raised panels using the table saw method we end up with a bevel that goes all the way out to the edge of the panel. What, if any, other cuts do you make to the face of the panel along the edges to flatten the bevel (or should I just undercut the back of the panel as needed)?
----------------------------------
If anyone has any comments or suggestions I would like to hear them. I am still looking at the raised panel jig, Figure 4-22, trying to figure that out (maybe some more questions later in the week).
Dennis
Well I have finally caught-up and I am now working in the same “chapter week” as everyone else.
I have been reading both the old (1955) and new versions of PTWFE. I have been looking at the Chapter 4 procedure for cutting raised panels using the table saw. I have never made a raised panel and I have some observations and questions.
1. Proper depth of the bevel cut
The old PTWFE version speaks about cutting the raised panel using one of two methods:
a. “Cut the bevel just deep enough to make the bevel – leaving a slight shoulder on the work”.
OR
b. First cutting a shallow kerf on the face of the board “and the bevel is cut so that it will meet the kerf”
Each of these two methods will define the edge of the raised part of the panel by making it stand proud of the bevel (Method b producing a 90 deg edge).
The new PTWFE version makes a slight change to the method:
c. “Set table height so the inside edge of the blade penetrates through the stock”.
I assume the “inside edge of the blade” is the edge closest to the fence. If so, this will result in the bevel being even with panel surface with no defined edge around the panel.
[ATTACH]3429[/ATTACH]
Questions:
Am I correct in my assumption of what the “inside edge of the blade” means?
Are all three methods OK and its just a matter of personal preference on the final appearance of the panel? Or, is Method c. a misprint and I should set the table height based on the outside edge of the blade? This would be the same as Method a, and on close inspection, Figure 4-23 in the new PTWFE would seem to be showing Method a.
-----------------------------------
2. Dealing with the Outside Edges of the Raised Panel:
Most router/shaper raised panel profiles I've seen seem to taper out the panel edges to a flat profile to fit a slot in the rails and stiles of the project. We won't get this when using the table saw method.
Question:
When making raised panels using the table saw method we end up with a bevel that goes all the way out to the edge of the panel. What, if any, other cuts do you make to the face of the panel along the edges to flatten the bevel (or should I just undercut the back of the panel as needed)?
----------------------------------
If anyone has any comments or suggestions I would like to hear them. I am still looking at the raised panel jig, Figure 4-22, trying to figure that out (maybe some more questions later in the week).
Dennis
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- raised panel2r.JPG (83.62 KiB) Viewed 7450 times
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a1gutterman
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Hi Dennis,
There is more then one way to skin a cat, I am told. Creating raised panels can be done in more then one way, too. They are all right ways to do it, if the end result is what you are looking for. Personally, I prefer using a router to create them. For one thing, a router (or shaper for that matter) has a variety of bits to choose from and (as you have discovered that the table saw method does knot) they also cut a nice thin and flat edge in which to slip into the door frame. The table saw methods are limited, but doable if that is what you have to work with.
P.S. Any of the three patterns that you illustrate are acceptable, it is your choice. If the end result makes you happy it is the right way.
There is more then one way to skin a cat, I am told. Creating raised panels can be done in more then one way, too. They are all right ways to do it, if the end result is what you are looking for. Personally, I prefer using a router to create them. For one thing, a router (or shaper for that matter) has a variety of bits to choose from and (as you have discovered that the table saw method does knot) they also cut a nice thin and flat edge in which to slip into the door frame. The table saw methods are limited, but doable if that is what you have to work with.
P.S. Any of the three patterns that you illustrate are acceptable, it is your choice. If the end result makes you happy it is the right way.
Tim
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.