Schedule a Meeting · Talk to a real woodworker: +1 937-890-5197 · 8:00AM – 4:30PM ET

More On Disappointed In MiterSet

RFGuy

Clify,

You may find this previous forum thread to be useful:

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=254590#p254590

I also came across this Sawmill Creek forum thread on cutting segments. There were differing opinions on which is the more critical dimension for segments, e.g. is it the angle or the length of each segment that matters more? Apparently for the larger # of segments, like 16 or more, it sounds like the woodworkers doing this are treating it more like a machinist would, e.g. using a micrometer instead of a ruler. Even 1/64" is too much error in the length of a segment for these segmented assemblies with many sides.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?162097-How-do-you-measure-your-segment-lengths-(segmented-turning)-to-the-32nd-of-an-inch

DLB

I'm following this thread with interest because I historically struggled getting great miters using the miter gauge. As far as I know that was 100% because of my limitations accurately and repeatedly setting the gauge, including the complementary angle for the other end to maintain edge and face references. When I wanted a great fit I always adjusted with the disc sander. Years ago I went to the Miter-Pro, also from SS, this was way before the MiterSet was offered. It works well within its limitations, meaning four-sided objects. Neither tool is great out of the box for compound angles, but both can presumably help.

It is interesting to me that SS offers two 'perfect miter' solutions, one of which aims to help accurately and repeatedly set the miter gauge angle while the other attempts to solve the exact same problem by taking the miter gauge out of the equation. Two expensive tools, aimed at the same objective, that cannot be used together... Neither is perfect, there are way too many variables in cutting the perfect miter to solve addressing only this one aspect. On paper the MiterSet is the superior solution, sets way more angles for flexibility while costing much less than the Miter-Pro. My tentative conclusion is that if the MiterSet did not make the Miter-Pro obsolete that can only be because it is not quite as reliable, accurate, or repeatable at the one thing the Miter-Pro does. I've never used a Miterset, but I'm trying to determine its utility. It seems like a great idea even for the Miter-Pro (or other miter jig) owner. I'd like to see the manufacturer make an actual accuracy statement, or add accuracy to the angle table, because it is a bit of a red flag for me. The tool only does one thing, it shouldn't be too much to ask that the supplier state how accurately it does that.

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote It is interesting to me that SS offers two 'perfect miter' solutions,

David,

Keep in mind that the MiterSet product is a 3rd party company, so it isn't so much that Shopsmith offers two different solutions. It is that the MiterSet competes with the Shopsmith Miter-Pro and Shopsmith happens to allow a competitor to advertise on their website. I have mostly just used my MiterSet Standard to set 90° on my Shopsmith miter gauge. For people like me that are lazy it works great for quickly and accurately setting the angle. I haven't used the other angles as much on it. I decided to go ahead and purchase both MiterSet products together for the small discount so I have the MiterSet Standard and the MiterSet Segments, but like I said already on this thread I haven't actually used my MiterSet Segments yet.

BuckeyeDennis

I went down the micrometer-adjustment rathole myself not long ago. With a track saw, that is, and it worked out nicely. It’s hard to beat a 4-1/2’ long “miter bar”, for which you can eliminate all slop.

Here’s some 6” wide acid-test segments, with no post-processing. (Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Chrysler. 😃 )

Cliffy

Looks like a perfect 36 degrees!

dusty

In the beginning there was no miter set and I used an engineer's square. Then along came the MiterSet from MomandPop.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2662&p=28868&hilit=MiterSet#p28868

RFGuy

Dusty,

Thanks for that thread...it was an interesting read. I didn't know the origins (RAS) of the MiterSet or that it didn't always have tapered pins. Also nice to know it is a Mom and Pop kind of operation which I always enjoy supporting over the larger, more established companies. If found it really hard to believe that they got the patent approved in only 4 months! That must be a new record for patent submissions in the modern era.

dusty

RFGuy wrote Dusty,

Thanks for that thread...it was an interesting read. I didn't know the origins (RAS) of the MiterSet or that it didn't always have tapered pins. Also nice to know it is a Mom and Pop kind of operation which I always enjoy supporting over the larger, more established companies. If found it really hard to believe that they got the patent approved in only 4 months! That must be a new record for patent submissions in the modern era.

It was a Mom and Pop in the beginning but I believe that has changed. I believe that what is now on the market is being produced by an outfit that purchased marketing rights from Dick Pattee and his wife.

JPG

Actually Dick Partee died and his wife sold(I assume) the rights to the products etc.. Original version was made from a wood(BB?) base. The current manufacturer changed to the aluminum base.

Interesting post there re the short width of the SS miter gauge face. i.e. we fergit it has been raised before!

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=31375#p31375

edflorence

DLB wrote . Years ago I went to the Miter-Pro, also from SS, this was way before the MiterSet was offered. It works well within its limitations, meaning four-sided objects.

- David

Over the years I have been enlisted by my artist wife to build picture frames for her pieces. About ten or fifteen years ago she asked me to do a run of about 30 identical frames. I knew it was going to be a really difficult task, so I decided to go for the Miter Pro. And it worked great. I am currently doing another run of 12 identical frames for her and the Miter Pro is making it an easy job. So, while I really like the Miter Pro, it can't do what the Miter Set does and I think the Miter Set is a completely different animal. Once the Miter Pro has been set up, as long as the proper sequence of cuts is followed, a right angle corner is guaranteed. The Miter Set, though, isn't a jig that will hold the workpiece during cutting. It will give you the perfect angle for whatever you want to build, but it won't hold that angle through the cut like the Miter Pro will.

Maybe what would help with cutting segments would be not just a longer fence but a longer fence that is also equipped with some vertical hold downs to clamp the segments in place. So what I am imagining is an L-shaped sled attached to the face of the miter gauge. After setting the miter gauge with the Miter Set, the workpiece would be snugged up to the fence and clamped down to the sled for the cut. Sorry no picture, but hope this is clear.

Maybe somebody who knows his way around Sketch-up might be able to draw it.

dusty

I think I understand what you envision BUT....how would you do a hold down that would work for the large variety of "small" pieces that you might need to cut.

Now I must admit that I have no experience cutting work pieces for segmented turning. I can't even envision how you might assembly pieces that were cut using all of the various angles provided by the MiterSet.

DLB

RFGuy wrote I have mostly just used my MiterSet Standard to set 90° on my Shopsmith miter gauge. For people like me that are lazy it works great for quickly and accurately setting the angle. I haven't used the other angles as much on it.

When used in this manner, how do the results of zeroing the miter gauge with the MiterSet produce results compare to the results of zeroing the miter gauge per the SS manual? Or are there too many variables to make this comparison? Lazy works for me, especially if it produces equivalent or better results.

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote When used in this manner, how do the results of zeroing the miter gauge with the MiterSet produce results compare to the results of zeroing the miter gauge per the SS manual? Or are there too many variables to make this comparison? Lazy works for me, especially if it produces equivalent or better results.

- David

Thanks David. With patience, I get similar results squaring the miter gauge using the Shopsmith procedure to that of the MiterSet Standard. Using the MiterSet is much faster though in my experience.

dusty

I thrive on these discussions.

What could be simpler than squaring the miter gauge to the miter track than using the MiterSet?

But...what good does that do you if the miter track is not parallel to the "face" of the blade?

edflorence

dusty wrote

What could be simpler than squaring the miter gauge to the miter track than using the MiterSet?

Well, sometimes I take the miter gauge, loosen the head, turn it upside down and set the bar in the slot and then snug the face of the gauge against the front rail of the table. As you point out, the table alignment has to be good for any method to work.

The hold downs for my (as yet) imaginary sled: my first thought is a couple of threaded rods set vertically to press down on the workpiece. If I get a chance later today I will try to post an image of what I am thinking.

BuckeyeDennis

dusty wrote I thrive on these discussions.

What could be simpler than squaring the miter gauge to the miter track than using the MiterSet?

But...what good does that do you if the miter track is not parallel to the "face" of the blade?

If the saw blade is not parallel to the miter track, it will cut an ever-so-slight cove profile onto the end of the workpiece. But it will still be square to the workpiece reference edge (which is placed against the face of the miter gauge). That's assuming that the misalignment is not so bad that the workpiece hits the plate of the saw blade, of course.

I know that's counter-intuitive, but the fact is that all the cutting happens at the leading edge of the saw blade. And if you measure the distance from leading edge of the saw blade to the miter slot, it will be constant, regardless of their relative angle.

You could use the same miter-gauge setup in drill-press mode, and use a straight router bit to trim the end of the workpiece square. In that case, the angle of the miter track obviously makes no difference whatsoever -- you'll always get a straight square cut.

dusty

BuckeyeDennis wrote
dusty wrote I thrive on these discussions.

What could be simpler than squaring the miter gauge to the miter track than using the MiterSet?

But...what good does that do you if the miter track is not parallel to the "face" of the blade?
If the saw blade is not parallel to the miter track, it will cut an ever-so-slight cove profile onto the end of the workpiece. But it will still be square to the workpiece reference edge (which is placed against the face of the miter gauge). That's assuming that the misalignment is not so bad that the workpiece hits the plate of the saw blade, of course.

I know that's counter-intuitive, but the fact is that all the cutting happens at the leading edge of the saw blade. And if you measure the distance from leading edge of the saw blade to the miter slot, it will be constant, regardless of their relative angle.

You could use the same miter-gauge setup in drill-press mode, and use a straight router bit to trim the end of the workpiece square. In that case, the angle of the miter track obviously makes no difference whatsoever -- you'll always get a straight square cut.

JPG

dusty wrote
BuckeyeDennis wrote
dusty wrote I thrive on these discussions.

What could be simpler than squaring the miter gauge to the miter track than using the MiterSet?

But...what good does that do you if the miter track is not parallel to the "face" of the blade?
If the saw blade is not parallel to the miter track, it will cut an ever-so-slight cove profile onto the end of the workpiece. But it will still be square to the workpiece reference edge (which is placed against the face of the miter gauge). That's assuming that the misalignment is not so bad that the workpiece hits the plate of the saw blade, of course.

I know that's counter-intuitive, but the fact is that all the cutting happens at the leading edge of the saw blade. And if you measure the distance from leading edge of the saw blade to the miter slot, it will be constant, regardless of their relative angle.

You could use the same miter-gauge setup in drill-press mode, and use a straight router bit to trim the end of the workpiece square. In that case, the angle of the miter track obviously makes no difference whatsoever -- you'll always get a straight square cut.

???

edflorence

edflorence wrote If I get a chance later today I will try to post an image of what I am thinking.

Here is a link to a page that shows more or less what I was thinking: http://segmentedturning.com/cutting.htm

It looks like my wheel has already been invented😁 And his clamping method is simpler and more practical than what I was envisioning.

rpd

Some good ideas for a sled in this video.

« Previous Page Next Page »