Shopsmith Machine, painted green, Mark 2

[crufone]

Hello,
I am a new member. Joined because I have a Mark V Machine and have just acquired a machine painted green identified as a MARK 2 which I thought I could use some parts to replace the "ways" of my Mark V machine. Doing my initial research I realized that not much would interchange from the green MARK 2 to the gray painted Mark V. What is this MARK 2 Machine? The Shopsmith History Section does not even mention the MARK 2 at all. The number is NOT Roman II, but the number 2 raised in the aluminum casting of the motor/belt guard. Any help would be appreciated. Michael Connolly, New Bern, NC

[edma194]

This thread has some info about Mark 2 machines: viewtopic.php?t=21811

[crufone]

Ed, Thanks for the reference. I wonder if the "ways" from the Mark 2 will work on the Mark V? On the Mark 2 they are exactly 48" long. I believe they might be longer on the Mark V. I didn't know that Shopsmith was still in production. I am surprized that the timeline of the Shopsmith production does not even mention the existance of the Mark 2. Wounder why?

[JPG]

Not the only details missing from the 'selective' history.

[edma194]

The modern Shopsmith company was recently sold to a new owner. The previous owners, the Folkerth family, originally restarted the company in the 1970s after several previous ownership changes and closures. The owners prior to that made a variety of single and multi-purpose machines but only the Mark V was continued when the company resumed in the 1970s. The history isn't always definitively known, some information was lost, some is merely anecdotal.

I don't know why the Folkerths didn't try to maintain the entire history of the company but maybe it was to simplify dealing with owners of the other machines calling about service, parts, and information. Shopsmith had no unique parts for those machines and I think Shopsmith preferred selling new machines to those old machine owners to providing parts and service.

[crufone]

Ed & JPG,
Is there a "market" for the parts I have for the Mark 2? A lot is missing. I do have the headstock with decent chuck. The motor was replaced. I have the ways. and al castings for the ways, table and table saw table, miter gaurge, turning tool rest and the pivot part to turn the headstock up to make the drill press. Thats about it. Does this group assemble to exchange ideas and swap parts with each other? How do folks buy and sell their extra parts?

[JPG]

Craig's list, e-bay. Really very little demand for M2 parts.

[chapmanruss]

Michael,

Belated but welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

If you read the posts of Just Bought a Mark 2 that Ed linked, you already understand some of the challenges and pitfalls of owning a Mark 2. As you read it you should understand that I got my first Mark 2 after my first post there. So, a correction is needed because in that first post I said,

If you are curious about the Shopsmith Mark 2. It was made from 1958 to 1960 at Montgomery Ward’s request and sold primarily by them. It was not made to the same quality standards as the Mark V and was a lower cost alternative. It uses two 2-step pulleys to change the 7 speeds (much like the Model 10E and 10ER) and has lower quality locks to hold the headstock, carriage, etc. in place. It has an extra saw blade slot on the main table (a feature added to the Mark 5 in the 1960’s and 1970’s). Some have bench tubes while others have “C” channels to connect the bench ends together. It has a narrow step shape extension table that creates its own fence and serves as the tailstock with a small block attachment. The Mark V Headstock will fit on the Mark 2 frame. The Mark 2 can also hold and power SPT’s (Special Purpose Tools) made for the Mark 5/V's and Mark VII/7's.

The one sentence in bold should say,

Some have metal bench tubes while others have rounded top Wood Rails (not "C" Channels) to connect the bench ends together.

It is, as stated, a less expensive tool than the Mark 5 of the time. That less expensive price really shows in the quality. I could go on and on about that but there are other threads here on the Forum about the Mark 2.

The Mark 2 was made at the request of Montgomery Ward and later the Mark 2 carried only the Powr-Kraft (Wards) name and included a variable speed pulley setup.

I have a fully restored Mark 2 as part of my Shopsmith tool collection. It is fully functional but is the last tool I would use for a project and would use any or all of the Shopsmith tools listed below my signature first including the Model 10's.

As for using parts specific to the Mark 2 to replace parts, like the Way Tubes, on a Mark 5/V I would recommend not to. There are things that are interchangeable between the Mark 2 and the Mark 5/V. As an example, the second Mark 2 I have came with a damaged Main Table and no Tailstock piece. I already purchased and have been planning to use a Mark 5 Main Table, Carriage, Fence, Extension Table and Tailstock as replacements. Mark 5/V parts used on a Mark 2 can be an improvement but the other way around is not. With so many Mark 5/V parts available both new and used it does not make sense to use Mark 2 parts on a Mark 5/V.

From what I have found there were around 10,000 Mark 2's made.

[crufone]

Russ,
Thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would because you seem to have restored older machines and would have accurate information about the Mark 2 machines. On the Mark 2 I have the Shopsmith plaque is missing, (it looks like it was attached just with adhesive) so I won't have any serial number. I heard back from the current mfg. and they said the way and bench tubes on the Mark 5 are 52' long and the tubes I have for the Mark 2 are 48" long.

Since you have restored machines I have a question. The mark 5 I have was stored in a shed in Florida for many years and the tubes especially the way tubes are really rusty. I suspect that in some areas there may be pitting of the metal surface. This will be a chore to clean up. I have used "evaporust" liquid before for smaller tools. How precise is the fit of the tubes to the aluminum casting parts? So if my tubes end up being mostly smooth with some pitting will that condition significantly affect the operation of the machine? I assume that the ways are just used to position various components in reference to each other and unless they are actually bent would not affect the precision of wood working operations. Am I correct? You have the experience to tell me. My original reference was a metal working lathe in which the carrage moves along the length of the piece being machined, but that really is not the case with the Shopsmith is it?

In your reference to the Mark 2 you kinda bad mouthed the Aluminum castings. But I discovered that the green painted aluminum castings I have on my Mark 2 look reasonably good. Perhaps I will just set it up to use as a drill press for large objects. I don't know what the quill travel is but the length of the tubes will allow me to fit a large object under the chuck once in a vertical position.

I appreciate you response

[chapmanruss]

Let's cover your questions and comments.

The Logo/Serial Number Plate on the Mark 2 was indeed glued on. In fact, the one I restored already had the plate fall off, so I used contact cement to glue it back on. Contact cement or similar is what it looked like was used originally.

The Way and Bench Tubes for the Mark 5/V and Mark 2 ARE different lengths. Mark 5/V Way Tubes are 52" long and Bench Tubes are actually 52-3/4" long. Another difference is the Mark 2 Bench Tubes or Wood Rails are drilled to attach the Bench Legs to. A very different attachment of the Bench Tubes to the bench frame than used on the Mark 5/V.

Rust has always been a problem and some climates harder to avoid it than others. The best process is to remove the rust in a way that doesn't remove base metal from the tubes. The Way Tubes are polished metal while the Bench Tubes were first painted on early Mark 5's then chrome on later Mark tools. Once de-rusted pitting is not a big issue unless you have large pitted areas. The tolerances between the Way Tubes and the Headstock and Carriage are very close. This is the reason not to remove base metal during de-rusting. If the Headstock and Carriage can still move smoothly on the Way Tubes over pitted areas, then you can still use them. Accuracy can still be achieved even with the minor pitting described. The only concern at that point, and it is a little one, would be extra wear on the locks when "clamping" over the pitted areas. If the pitting is too great, then replacing the Way Tubes would be the best option. There is a product that works well to seal the pitted areas which the name escapes me right now, but JPG or Ed may remember it.

As for the Mark 2 most of the castings are not a problem. They do tend to be thinner castings and in the case of the rip fence both the ones I got with the two Mark 2 Shopsmith I purchased to restore have cracks in the side of the rip fence and broken edges of the base/fence rail clamp area. Mark 2 parts are more susceptible to damage especially when accidently dropped. I am guessing that is what happened to the Main Table Fence Rail on one of the Mark 2's with a bent end. Some parts are the same as those used on the Mark 5 during the same time. An example is the Table Tie Bar itself, but the posts are smooth on the Mark 2. Another example is the Miter's Protractor but on the Mark 2 it does not have the 90 & 45 degree stops. The locks used on the Mark 2 are screw locks similar in function to some of the locks used on the Model 10E and 10ER but a much cheaper type. The Locks are shown below. The Mark 2 was engineered to do the same functions the Mark 5 can but also engineered to cost less.

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Locks.jpg (150.77 KiB) Viewed 278 times

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I don't recall the exact length for sure, but the Quill extension is around 4" similar to the Mark 5. EDIT: actually less than 4" of extension.

Something I highly suggest, if you don't have the Retractable Casters that are specific for the Mark 2, is add a cross member between the legs front to back for stability. The Mark 2 has a narrower footprint front to back, so the Mark 5 Retractable Carters are too wide to fit the Mark 2 although they look the same. Without lower leg bracing the legs can spread out as shown in the picture below. There is enough "play" in the screw holes of the legs and braces to allow the legs to spread apart somewhat.

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legs separating.jpg (64.92 KiB) Viewed 278 times